Callous doctors?

[cornflakecrunchie]

Why do they tell (especially older people) nowadays that they're going to die? Would you want to know? I certainly wouldn't. I can't understand why they aren't 'treated' with some placebo.. the power of the human mind would otherwise see them off faster, or maybe that's what's wanted these days?
The (two) people that I know of are just sitting at home now, wondering if the next symptom means The End.

"No honestly missus, your car's brakes are absolutely fine! Just head on off and enjoy your drive down the coast road"

Nice friendly mechanic who notices someone's brakes don't work, but doesn't want to upset them

How ridiculous.
What right does anyone have to withhold essential medical information from someone? It's an outrageous suggestion.
You don't get to decide what another adult is "allowed" to know.

It's important to know imo.
I was with my grandad when the doctor told him, gently, that there was nothing more that could be done.
My grandad thanked him. It was a very upsetting moment but he deserved to know.

I don't think the people who have replied have put themselves in this situation. Maybe anyone young & healthy can't.
Is it really 'medical information'? It's not like saying stop smoking / drinking / over-eating / something you can do anything about, is it?

The brakes thing is ridiculous.

Direct plain speaking causes less upset in the long run than talking round an issue. People die, we all know this, the elderly are acutely aware of their own mortality at that stage of life so the news shouldn't be a shock to them.

Everyone is going to die. The only question is when.

Personally I'd rather know if it's likely to be sooner rather than later so I can get everything sorted out and say goodbye rather than being given salt pills and being told everything is fine.

@Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast
I appreciate that, the people I know have been told that they are terminal, & that's been accepted, but is it really necessary to say 'if you have 'this episode' (can't go into detail) again you probably won't survive it'? How frightening for them.

I can't understand why they aren't 'treated' with some placebo.. the power of the human mind would otherwise see them off faster, or maybe that's what's wanted these days?

Placebo treatment aren't considered ethical - informed consents can't be there.

There's also some evidence that listing side effects can make them more likely to occur but to have informed consent patients need to be aware of risks.

I think I'd like to know - so I can get my affairs in order make most of last days - though predications as to how long are shear guess work and based on averages that may not apply.

So how would a poor doctor know if you do or don't want to know - even relatives aren't reliable - as many can't see past their own wants and needs to protect patients or what's best for them not the patient.

TBH though Dmum was clear Dad wanted everything done so every time they asked about DNR order she declined as did we all only to then get told it was nothing to do with us and wholly up to the doctors to which Mum asked why ask us then. They did ask Dad and he was clear he wanted everything done - and he had had his heart re-started so knew what was involved - they suddenly decide he didn't understand and then asked Mum and then us got asked - we were clearly all answering "wrong".

I would rather be told the truth? I think the medical profession would get into all sorts of confusion if people aren't aware of their condition? The 'placebo' won't work - so the patient goes back to the doctor to try another medication - wouldn't it be best just to say, I'm sorry there is nothing medically we can do for you?

Knowing the end is near will, for some, make you sort out things and put your affairs in order, rather than living in ignorant bliss

I do get this to an extent. My parents have their estate in order and have done for years. All final plans made. They have often said they would not want to know. Two of my grandparents died suddenly but two had cancer and as far as I am aware they never knew. It didn't seem to harm them - both late 80s

Well it very much depends on the patient. In my dad’s case, the first thing the consultant asked him was, ‘ how much do you want to know?’ . Dad said, everything. He was treated kindly, but as an adult.

Likewise, when I faced cancer, I was told what my options were and their most likely outcomes.

I am an adult with capacity for these matters. Don’t treat me as a child.

Of course it’s medical information! I’ve had cancer, and I wanted absolutely all the information I could get, including treatment options, likely prognosis, survival rate etc.

I think people underestimate how brutal treatment can be. For example - if someone is elderly and frail and needs resuscitation, they will be physically harmed by the process of resuscitation and are very unlikely to get back to the same point they were at before it.

Who decides if they are told or not? Some would want to know.

Doctors can’t start lying, that’s not right.

I get it OP and I agree with you.

After my darling dad was told, he said to us that he wished they hadn't told him. It was really painful for all of us. it's more than 2 years ago now and I am tears just writing this. The end was painless and peaceful, he was just mostly asleep for the last few days. I just feel that telling him added in a layer of anguish that did him no good at all and only served to upset him.

When I started work in the nhs , elderly people were regularly NOT told they were at the end of life or had a terminal condition, often at the request of their family….this was a generation that had fought in the war, had seen loved ones or friends die in air raids or on the battlefield. Those that survived went on to have careers, raise families, see their parents, spouses ,siblings die. Who decides that an elderly person is now so inept that they can’t come to terms with the end of their life? If you were to put up an AIBU saying “ medics can have poor communication skills when it comes to breaking bad news “ then I would wholeheartedly agree with you .

Yes my brakes comment is ridiculous - that's the point.

Just like it would be ridiculous for a doctor not to tell someone that they might die if x scenario happens.

Calling doctors "callous" for doing so is multiples more ridiculous than both.

I think it's important to tell to be honest, a lot of people want to know their chances/timeline and the reality of the situation they are in.

On the flipside, I think it's cruel, callous and abominable that anyone used to be lied to, OP. Especially because it was generally women who weren't told their cancer was terminal (or that they had it) so they forced themselves to try and "get over it" and likely ran themselves into an early grave and never got to say their goodbyes or tick things off their bucket lists.

It's not callous to be honest with people about a prognosis.

Doctors aren't able to make paternalistic decisions on behalf of others.
Of course bad news can be upsetting but there is a great deal to be said for a good death, and making realistic plans tends to make for a much less frightening and more peaceful end when it actually comes to it.

I think people should have the right to have written on their medical record that they are not to be told if they are dying,
I’m with you OP, I wouldn’t want to know. I have long term health problems that will likely eventually kill me, and I know 100% I wouldn’t want to know it was coming.

Their affairs are in order.
I'm trying not to be specific but let's say it's heart related & patient 2 has been told that they probably won't survive another 'scare' If that was me, I wouldn't trouble the buggers with my presence in hospital, I'd just quietly wait at home, in pain, to expire, rather than being made comfortable in hospital. Is this the kind of 'health care' that we want?

Some people would want to know because they'd want to stay at home and die at home vs a hospital.
But it doesn't need to stop them going to hospital and getting the help they need, but also gives them the information that they could be going in there for the last time. I think knwoeldge in health/life related things is quite important to most people, I don't think it's wise to go down the path of withholding.

Most patients in that situation would be cared for at home not in hospital.