To want to see my parents without DB there...

[Cantaloupes]

My parents spend every weekend with DB.

DB: lives alone, unemployed, single, no children, and has several MH issues including bipolar and psychosis. He is also autistic. He can see my parents any day of the week but "prefers" to go to theirs all weekend, where DM waits on him hand and foot.

So I either don't see my parents at all on weekends, or I see them with him there.

In all honesty, I never relax in his presence. He's been restrained and sectioned twice and spent many months on psychiatric wards and warden assisted accommodation in the past. I have 3 DC, two of them girls, and DB likes to stroke their faces and tummy and tickle them and it is just - well.. weird to watch and feels so inappropriate. When I raise this with DM she is so defensive and thinks I'm being nasty and accusing him of stuff. She says i'm uncaring and it's "ok" for me because I have DH and DC whilst DB has nobody.

AIBU to ask them to see me and my family separately to DB?

His behaviour around your kids id enough reason not to go. Will your mum come to you?

Why on earth are you letting him " stroke their faces and tummy and tickle them"?

only way to go is to invite parents out, away from where he will be. Whether they will go is another matter.

Set your boundary and stuck to it.

Yes, stop going over to theirs. Invite your parents to your house (without him) or invite them out (without him).

@Dolphinnoises my parents come to us occasionally on weekends but either bring him too and/or it's a fleeting visit, because they want to get back to their house to make DB some food at a specific time because of his "routine".

@Nerdles i don't "let" him, he just did it so now DH intervenes and calls the girls over to him if they get too close to DB as it makes DH uncomfortable to watch too.

@toomuchfaff @Ace56

We hardly ever go round now. My parents house is quite small so it just feels crowded anyway with 8 people in it.

Just invite to yours without him. It's their risk of ruining their relationship with their grandchildren if they don't come.
And I'd call him out every time he touched them inappropriately. It does sound creepy and not ok.

How old are the children? not that this matters in regards to you being uncomfortable but I wonder if the kids themselves are uncomfortable with it too? You're not unreasonable btw

I would be very clear to your parents that this tickling and stroking behaviour can’t happen these days and they must understand that, innocent or not it’s the sort of thing that could get your autistic brother in massive trouble and makes people incredibly uncomfortable. That’s a hill I’d die on.

To be honest your parents are enabling him and don't want to do anything that rocks the boat. A simple "I'm afraid we can't visit whilst DB is at yours as his behaviour towards our girls is unacceptable. We teach our children body autonomy and touching them in the way he does would not be tolerated by outsiders so it's not acceptable for him to do it either. We have a responsibility to keep our children safe."

Do you or DH actually say anything when your DB does this behaviour or just call the children away? In our household we are very clear, I've actually had to pull my dad up on stuff before. How do your children also react? Again in our household we practice "Stop, my body" with all of us. We all have a right to say it and the other person has to take their hands off when it's said.

His behaviour is not okay, and your parents are minimising it. He might be autistic with MH issues, but he’s a grown man with the same physiology as any other grown man. It’s massively inappropriate.

I would tell your parents they are welcome to come around, but DB isn’t.

don't take your kids? vist them on weekdays during the holidays?

invite them over to yours.

from your description it seems unlikely our parents will stop him coming.

So it's up to you to adjust how/when you see them that makes you and your kids comfortable. or don't see them.

DH raises it with me when we're alone but doesn't say anything to DM because he knows how defensive she is with anything to do with DB. He did explain to her that I was upset we don't have my parents to ourselves ever on a weekend. She seemed to accept that when DH said it but still carries on having DB there all weekend so DH talk with her came to nothing.

I can see why DH doesn't want to say anything as it is your parents not his so doesn't want to upset the cart. Are you approaching it from we want you to ourselves without DB as he is always there or from the DB has odd behaviours which we do not feel are appropriate and our concerns are not being listened to?
However I think DH does have a right to hold your brother to account if he is doing something deemed as inappropriate. At the end of the day DH is a role model for your girls. If they are to see a strong male role model in their lives stand up for them in that way no doubt it'll help them as women to what is deemed as acceptable in their own relationships. Sorry that sounds really harsh and absolutely not my intention honest. I think of what is the worst that can happen? Your parents don't see their grandkids possibly but then they aren't exposed to a creepy uncle that is never held to account. Yes he may be autistic and have MH issues but he wouldn't be able to do those kind of behaviours in public without repercussions so being family is no excuse. I think your DM is blurring the boundaries to what is acceptable behaviour whether that's generational or because it's her child I don't know. I'm sure your DB has no sinister motives and just hasn't been taught well enough about body autonomy but as you say it can't continue.

Is it possible the stroking is sensory seeking? Just wondering as I have an autistic nephew (age 12) and he will sit and stroke my face/leg. He's done it since he was little.

Regardless, if it makes you and the girls uncomfortable, that's fine. Have you asked him to stop and explained boundaries? He may have poor understanding due to his autism.

He clearly has significant mental health needs and relies on your parents. We would all do extra for our child in this scenario. But you're also perfectly entitled to want to see your parents alone.

Will they meet you out the house to do an activity or etc?

ASD goes hand in hand with needing structure.

Oh, I feel for you - in the first instance I was thinking you were being a bit harsh, because I have a little dd with ASD, who realistically might never work and I thought you were sounding a bit judgmental and then I read about the stroking and tickling. It doesn't matter if its sensory seeking, it really doesn't. It's not okay for grown men to stroke little girls. He most probably doesn't have good understanding of this, so I'm going to say the problem is your mother - if she won't explain the boundaries and just lets it happen she is not helping him at all. You're not unreasonable, but dm is the problem and if she won't meet you half way I'm not sure what you can do.

It all came to a head the weekend before last when my DD called DM on Sunday afternoon and asked if she'd come round (they live walking distance from us) and DM said oh.. it's too cold for us to walk. DH then said he would happily go and give them a lift here and back. DM then said she couldn't as she needed to cook DB's dinner soon. (!) I felt so upset for my DC. I have barely spoken to DM since.

It sounds hard for DM to change DB's routine, and she must be very concerned about him. So visiting at weekends probably means seeing DB at the moment.
However you certainly don't need to visit when DB is present, or to host DB at your home if he's making DC and you feel uncomfortable. You could invite your parents on weekday evenings and spend time with them in your home, without him.
You could also discuss with DM how to arrange things so that DB sees DC without touching them, but that might be harder.

I don't think the stroking is sensory seeking for DB, he has never been affectionate and has been awkward with that sort of thing. I think he's trying to be affectionate with his nieces and failing because it isn't something that comes naturally to him.

Can you not ask your parents to come round on a weekend morning before she has to go back to make DB food? Or can you invite them round one evening in the week or you go to theirs in the week?

I agree with this and I’d go a step further to say he’s not allowed near my children. If your parents are not willing to visit without him then I’m afraid that’s their choice and there’s not much you can do about it but my children’s safety would come first. Innocent or not I wouldn’t be allowing another adult to act this way with my children. I’d be having a frank conversation with your parents and if they’re not willing to visit you or allow you to visit them without your brother present then that says it all really. The situation is really unfair on you and your family OP, surely there’s one time in the week your parents can spare an hour or two to spend with your family.

We can and do see DM during the week, but DH and DF work full time, and DC are at school - so the only time the whole family is together is on a weekend.

DM has explained to DB about boundaries, and he hasn't done it since, but it feels so contrived because she is so desperate for him to be loved by my DC that ask DC to come and hug him etc. i know she means well but it is cringeworthy and really makes me feel uncomfortable. DC are accepting of DB and his ways but i don't think they should be forced to hug, kiss him etc.

Absolutely no child should be forced to hug or kiss an adult they don’t want to, it was always something I was strict on with our children as I hated having to hug and kiss adults as a child. You need to have a conversation with your mum and put firmer boundaries in place.