To want to see my parents without DB there...

[Cantaloupes]

My parents spend every weekend with DB.

DB: lives alone, unemployed, single, no children, and has several MH issues including bipolar and psychosis. He is also autistic. He can see my parents any day of the week but "prefers" to go to theirs all weekend, where DM waits on him hand and foot.

So I either don't see my parents at all on weekends, or I see them with him there.

In all honesty, I never relax in his presence. He's been restrained and sectioned twice and spent many months on psychiatric wards and warden assisted accommodation in the past. I have 3 DC, two of them girls, and DB likes to stroke their faces and tummy and tickle them and it is just - well.. weird to watch and feels so inappropriate. When I raise this with DM she is so defensive and thinks I'm being nasty and accusing him of stuff. She says i'm uncaring and it's "ok" for me because I have DH and DC whilst DB has nobody.

AIBU to ask them to see me and my family separately to DB?

it sounds hard, OP but imagine you are the mother in this scenario. You have one child who is happily partnered up with own children, a job and so on.

And you have another who seems to need you an awful lot more.

Your mum has got into a routine, can you try to nudge her into a different routine, so that she comes to you once a month for one of the weekend days for a few hours? Can you go over there for a few hours with just one of your DCs at a time (not ideal but better than nothing).

She must be exhausted looking after your brother all the time. Have you talked to her about it? about what will happen when she is no longer there? You all need to start planning for eventualities.

It sounds shit for you though, i have to say.

Can't they come round after school and stay for dinner? Or you go to them after school?

Could they do school pickup once in a while?

i also feel people are fixated on the tickling thing which seems to have been solved?

How old are the DC, OP?

DC are 3, 8 and 12

DF works and then comes home and in bed within 1 hour. Another one who likes his routine and we highly suspect he has undiagnosed autism like DB. It's only become apparent in the last few years. It's a tough one all round.

Why are so many people on here assuming this man is some kind of sex pest? My grandchildren absolutely love a bit of rough and tumble with anyone who’ll join in - tickling is their favourite!!!
The DB is disabled, has significant mental illness and yet when his DM wants to support him his sibling acts like a jealous kid!

@Brefugee DM is totally exhausted. She isn't sleeping well for various reasons and she has an autoimmune condition too. Her lack of sleep makes her incredibly angry and stressed and I'm her punching bag, because she won't ever vent to DB as he is "poorly" or DF.

Once they have gone, it all falls to me to keep an eye out for him and check in on him etc, but DM gets very defensive about that too, and I get comments like "we'll tell the authorities / MH team he has no siblings", which is so hurtful.

It’s a really tough one because I don’t know what the solution is and I don’t necessarily think either you or DM are being massively unreasonable, I can understand both POV. I totally understand why you feel the way you do, I’d probably feel the same, but I can also understand why your mum is hesitant to rock the boat with DB given the issues you describe, and I also think as a parent especially when you have a child with additional needs, no matter their age, you feel very protective of them and she probably see’s it as unfair that while you would all be together he would be on his own if he has nobody else.

You are well within your rights to set your boundaries and stick to them, but be prepared to accept that may mean weekend visits aren’t on the cards.

gosh it sounds really stressful.
your poor mum though. What a mess.

ETA: although it feels hurtful when your mum says that about siblings, are you actually willing to take over his care? not sure how old you all are but might it happen when your DCs have left home and you're settling down to life with just you and DH?

in that case, tbh, i would be tempted to make sure that everyone knows i wouldn't be taking over the care, at least not in the way your mum does.

Oh stop letting her try to manipulate you, call her out, better call her bluff and agree.

shes using this as a weapon to continue with this highly dysfunctional set up. You and dh are both extremely disturbed by your DB stroking of the kids and you’re probably wise to be so. Trust your gut.

have the conversation, be clear, be the advocate and protector for your kids. They come first

Tell your dm that if your db continues to be inappropriate with your children you WONT be a source of care for him and perhaps they had better look at alternatives for his future.

What has he been sectioned for? Is he dangerous or self harming? Has he a history of sexual assault or paedophilia?

If he's potentially dangerous or a sexual predator I would be keeping well away. If he's harmless but socially inept I would stop the play you don't like immediately, don't do that John the girls don't like it, or you're too big/old to play with the kids like that, they're too big to play those games, or whatever gets the desired result.

It seems a shame to totally exclude him if he is harmless and to fall out with your DM over it. As said if he isn't harmless that's another thing entirely.

I have said to them that I am prepared to be DB emergency contact when parents are no longer here, check in on him, but not to do what my DM does for him. For one thing, if he has a breakdown, I couldn't restrain him. Police have had to do that and MH team wouldn't enter his house in the days that followed as he was deemed too hostile/aggressive.

I do have my DC (and my own) safety to consider. Just before DB most recent breakdown (he had stopped taking his meds), my DC were at my parents house without me or DH. My eldest DD said he was acting "weird" and shouting at the tv. He then left my parents house. An hour or so later, police were called just outside DB house and restrained him. It really shook me up that DC nearly witnessed that.

@custardpyjamas no history of sexual assault / paedophilia.

I'm not sure what he was sectioned for per se, I thought that was a last resort the relevant authorities took when he refused to go willingly to hospital for treatment.

As to whether he is dangerous: on his medication, no, it just makes him shaky/sleepy. But if he hasn't been taking his medication (unbeknownst to us) then I couldn't say. He hasn't harmed anyone but can get incredibly aggressive.

What a mess OP, I feel for you and for your DM too - she's probably at the end of her tether trying to hold everything together.

Could it be time to look at more comprehensive care for your DB - a more appropriate housing situation maybe, where care is part of the package. Taking you and your DC out of the equation your DM is only barely coping now, better choices have to made for the long term with regards to your DB, for everyone's sake.

That might take a while, for DM (and DB) to accept that and for it to be accomplished but honestly it's clear the current situation has no longevity in it.

I think that has to be the priority at this stage, to achieve more stability for DB and your DM. The relationship of your DM with your DC will have to be put on the back burner for now. Once DB's care is more suitable and stable your DM should be able to relax somewhat and resume a good relationship with her GC.

Good luck.

Absolutely, categorically NO!

imagine you are the sibling in this scenario who has had your needs put second to your disabled brother your whole life. It’s NOT a lot to ask to have an adult relationship with your parents without your sibling being there!

I could be the parent in this scenario, I have 2 YA boys with autism and a younger sibling without. How fucking awful to have to always put your needs aside because your brothers needs come first.

Ive tried to make efforts to put ds3 first and when their adults I will absolutely do
my utmost to continue a relationship with him, without his siblings muscling in.

Thanks @Bollihobs

When DB was about to be discharged from hospital they found him a warden assisted flat (rarer than hen's teeth!) and DB said he didn't like it so, instead of encouraging him that it was in his best interests, my parents backed his wish to return to his own home. I opposed this strongly as in the past he has been so much more stable in a warden assisted set up and it has been a huge weight off my parents' shoulders. But i was told by DM it was "nothing to do with me" and I "just want him caged up like an animal".

@LoveSandbanks thank you for your perspective and understanding and yes, it's not too much to ask for me to have an adult relationship with my parents without my DB. I think you have the right approach as to have a sibling (or two) with autism means you inevitably do get sidelined growing up, as your sibling/s have those additional needs and need extra attention.

Rather than making it sound like you’re targeting your brother, can you ask your parents not to ask the children to show physical affection etc and explain that it’s about teaching them they have the right to physical boundaries and shouldn’t be forced to do these things. To be honest, maybe I’m a cynic, but your description of the uncle child interactions makes me a bit queasy. You
must never leave them alone together.

I really feel for you OP, it’s a horrible situation for you to be in!

without going into too many details, my brother is a rotten human being and my parents enable this. I put up with it for years before having a family of my own, at which point I realised I didn’t want him anywhere near my partner or new baby.

I’ve been no-contact with my brother for 3 years, and my parents struggle with this boundary quite a lot. They’ve threatened not to come to my wedding if he’s not invited, threatened not to be a part of my child’s life if I didn’t let my brother be an uncle (this is before my child was born and they swiftly backed down once they saw I wasn’t budging). They also tell me that my brother ‘has nobody’ and I should be kinder.

holding the boundary is exhausting, but it is gradually getting easier over time. It’s the lesser of two evils. I feel guilty about it sometimes, but the strong instinct to protect my partner and child keeps me going. My advice would be to trust your gut and protect your family ❤️

This. Nothing untoward from what's been written , my uncle used to tickle and horseplay with me and my db as children and my dc. We all loved him, physical touch is part of being human and showing affection. If OPs dc don't like it , then OP should step in but she hasn't actually said that's the case.

@Malorcamum that all sounds horribly familiar to me, I can relate to a lot of what you have written there. I have also been threatened to be cut off if I say anything less than positive about my DB. He spent a lot of our childhood hitting and biting me, I still have some scars, but this was ok due to his special needs. He also went through a phase of hating women and hating me... but this was also ok, I was fair game.

Well done for sticking to your boundaries, it's becoming clearer I really need to do the same.

@EvelynBeatrice I understand, I don't think there's anything sinister in his motives at all, just really uncomfortable to watch

@RedHelenB tickling and horseplay within reason and with someone who understands boundaries is absolutely fine, and I'm quite tactile myself. But this is a slow stroke of the tummy of a girl - it's hard to describe. I don't think he understands it's inappropriate but it's strange to watch and I mentioned it as an example of why I never really feel comfortable around him and why it'd be nice to see my parents without him present a bit more. The example I have given isn't the only reason.

Oh gosh @Cantaloupes that's so hugely frustrating!

Like everyone else I wish I had the "here's the solution" answer for you but of course I don't 🙁. It's a multi part issue that is, honestly, almost completely outside your ability to remedy it in any way.

I'm sure you are stronger than this but my honest instinct would be to greatly withdraw from your DM/DF and concentrate on your DCs - it will be awful if it all comes crashing down around your DM but sometimes we do have to accept that we cannot change a situation when those involved refuse change, we can only change how we react/interact.

Again, good luck, wishing you well.