What do you think of Australia's vaccine policy?

[rampy]

I'm born and bred Aussie. We live in WA and kids here can't go to kindy or school
without having been vaccinated. I have a couple of British friends who were so offended that they needed to vaccinate their kids they home schooled because 'well we'll just go back to the uk' but they've stayed and now need to get their kids vaccinated because they have no friends their own age and can't go to school without vaccines.

You can't apply for child related benefits if your kid isn't vaccinated either here.

Having seen NZ have just declared a whooping cough epidemic Id say I agree with WA stance I'm honest!

@123Gato why not the HPV vaccine and would your DC be able to self consent to that one if considered to be Gillick competent?

The thing is, te state mandates all sorts of things . Eg education for children. Yes, you can opt out and home school but you still are accountable (theretically) to the state for how you do this.

I seem to recall a friend telling me that a newborn baby in south africa isn't allowed to leave the hospital without a TB vaccination. Sounds sensible to me.

Legitimate medical exemptions are fine. But I am always surprised by how many people.seem.to think their concern is a valid reason not to. Dh has a family member who is permanently all over Facebook with anti vax messaging. She loves to rant about the conspiracy yo keep silent about the harm of.vaccines, how the media are colluding etc. And I keep thinking, "if this was really as bad as she is ranting about surely we would hear about these harms in our actual lives? It would come up surely? "Did you hear little Johnny had his vaccines and now can't walk?" Etc?! I mean, I hear about evety chicken pox outbreak, I hear if a child in the broader community gets cancer etc?!

My view has always been that if you have to compel someone you've lost the argument. Why do people not want to do it? Deal with that. Win the argument. There are so many benefits.

The fact that vaccine damage legislation exists means that at individual level, there can be problems and it's not much consolation that it's safe for most people if it's your child who has a vaccine injury. There isn't a social contract - if your child is the one with the injury people won't help (in the UK at least parents of children with SN have to fight for help).

Vaccines are a massive benefit at population level and so need to be encouraged, not compelled. I also don't really think that children should ever be denied an education and certainly not because of decisions their parents have made.

However, with all the social media disinformation these days, the numbers of vaccine refusers are growing which is a massive problem and only getting worse. In the past it was a few websites preaching nonsense but it's a far more serious problem now.

So I am more on the fence than I used to be and can see the reason a state would compel it. But I think educating people works better than compulsion.

We know exactly what happens to the unvaccinated vs the vaccinated so have absolutely no need to give a placebo.
Do you honestly think that you won't coach measles if you're given a saline injection but are told its the MMR

With growing antibiotic resistance, a resurgence of illnesses of all sorts, growing levels of poverty and poverty-related disease, and international travel, I no longer care about the right to refuse of people scared of vaccines against measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diptheria, tetanus, meningitis, TB, HPV, where advised. The UK offers fewer vaccines than many other developed countries. People too stupid to accept the few vaccines offered in the UK when they have no valid medical excuse don’t deserve the time of day.

Yeah I do find it funny how all the vegans vaccinate. Mostly the vaccine is not vegan and most vegans don't ask about it , they just vaccinate.

@crumblingschools they won't consent, believe me! A family member was badly affected by this vaccine so I decided not to allow my two (late teens) boys to have it. All vaccines carry the risk of side effects and (for obvious reasons) these are often vastly downplayed. After careful risk assessment I decided it wasn't worth it. Ditto covid.

I want to point out that homeschooling in Australia is different to the UK and the US.

In Australia, you need to register to homeschool. To register you must provide the educational department in your state or territory with an educational plan. So from a safeguarding point of view, you are on someone’s radar.

Distance education (such as the School of the Air) is not considered homeschooling. Both are often used by parents and children in remote locations. If you haven’t been to Australia, particularly that big empty bit in the middle, you don’t know what remote is.

Less than 1% of children are homeschooled.

While there may be a few homeschoolers who are antivaxxers, they are in the minority. Homeschooling may be the only practical option in some parts of the country. And having to register to homeschool may be off putting to some of the more anti authority/anti government types who would tend to choose to homeschool in other countries.

Almost!
They moved the TB vaccine from 8 weeks ( with all the other first round of vaccines) to day 1.
This is because a lot of moms don't bring their babies back for the routine vaccines.
A lot of the poor rural communities are most at risk for TB, but they love quite rural and are not known for compliance so often get 'lost'.
So they moved the TB vaccine to day 1 so that they can ' catch' more babies.
Moms are generally more willing/ able to get the in hospital 'treatments' than come back for it. Although I don't think all the doctors/ hospitals ask.
Anyway, you can def refuse.
You just have to sign a form that someone did offer it and you are aware and you opted out.
But no, what tyranny would it be if they refused to let you leave without it?? Geez what next, what else would they mandate? Def optional although majority complies.

I agree with the principal that all children who can be vaccinated should (always a very very small number who might not be able to for valid medical reasons). But I also think that education is a human right and could see a possibility of children missing out on good quality school based education because of the views of their parents

Those children miss out, anyway, because they have poor attendance even if they do attend sometimes, due to all the things their parents object to and don’t want them taking part in. There are few people with radical beliefs about vaccines, to the extent they refuse all vaccination, who don’t have radical opinions about all sorts of other things, including the fact that education is deemed compulsory in the first place. They object to attendance requirements every bit as much as vaccination.

Most vegans and veggies happily quaff wine; very, very few wines are suitable for them
Principles only apply when they don't get in the way of (some) people's lives, or if they only affect others

You're coming across very strong, but the poster does have a point.
Yes COVID vax did reduce the chances of transmission (although research showed that having been expose ld the the illness did the same thing)
That's how vaccines started remember.
Edward Jenner realised that the milking girls didn't not get the pox. Why because they've been exposed to it.
And that's how we started with vaccines. First vaccines were nothing else than a weak (bottled ) version of the illness. And no one in their right mind would have vaccinated the milk maids?? They've been exposed. They just made the vaccine to expose the people who weren't exposed (ie the people not working with the cows).

And they DID say that taking the vaccine will a) stop you from getting COVID and b) stop you from transmitting it.
Both lies. (So that more people would get the vax)
No one came out and say 'ooh sorry, our bad, this was medical coercion, we really meant to say that it REDUCES the risk
'
They also blatantly lied and said that having been exposed to COVID does not help you, only the vax does, which were again proven to be false.
So there were blatant misinformation at best and lies at worst during COVID.
I don't think you have to be rude to the other poster when what she said was true.

O crikey meant to quote you🙈

That's not true at all. I have friends who won't vaccinate their kids. So far, their kids have never caught anything that they'd have been vaccinated against except maybe chest infections (not loads). That's also the only thing they feel strongly about. Don't think they even vote. So their kids haven't missed any disproportionate amount of time because their parents are anti-vaxxers at all. I don't understand your logic here. Are you talking about those evangelical types or something? Most of our anti vaxxers in the UK are not religious.

What happens when the doctor refuses the medical exemption certificate because they refuse to send you for an allergy test to prove you need one

it took me 60years and finally ending up on A&e to find out I am allergic to pretty much every shampoo, conditioner, body wash , cleaning product, laundry detergent and all vaccines

To me it's fair as long as children who are medically unable to have a vaccine due to family history/ allergy are allowed to be exempt and still participate.

Not vaccinating your children (outside of a Dr's recommendation) is a choice, but being vulnerable in terms of immunity etc is not. So I think it's important that those who cannot choose are not excluded from society as a result of others choices.

I think it's really important to be informed as a parent in what healthcare your child is receiving by equally unless you're a trained healthcare professional at some point you need to trust legitimate medical sources on their guidance.

Ridiculous

I agree with Australia. If you do not want to vaccinate your children against certain diseases the state can limit their exposure to vulnerable children who are unable to vaccinate. People who are unable to get vaccinated need herd immunity to protect them it is not just about the individual and their protection.

The take up for the HPV in Ireland has been very successful and the health service now says they will have eliminated cervical cancer by 2040 how can people be against that? I think those that choose not to vaccinate are relying on all those that do to protect them, if that critical mass reduces and diseases, which have been pretty much eliminated, start spreading again they may change their tune. It is a selfish decision and only works for them because others get their children vaccinated

Have you read the book The Herd?

All these pro vaccine mandate posters will be back tracking in a couple of years when some dubious vaccine is rolled out by a company owned by Musk or someone and imposed on them by the likes of Trump and RFK.

@Annabella92 isn’t RFK anti vaccine

We have a lot of isolated communities like the Amish who we just leave alone. Of course they don’t go to public schools so this wouldn’t be an issue for them but some reform groups do and allowances should be made.

Jewish groups are also given a pass on this, Hasidic Jews tend not to trust vaccines for whatever reason

Trump is keener on drinking bleach than mandatory vaccines and RFK already has anti vax blood on his hands.

Haven'r read The Herd @PrivacyPussyPasta .

I think you will find that most veggies and vegans do vaccinate their kids. Anti vaxxers tend to have other objections, not dietary.

The HPV vaccine success in Ireland is just incredible.

I would implement the same here but add many other restrictions to lessen the risk to others. I would remove religious exemption and any exemption except medical, with strict criteria.

It's part of the social contract that we minimise the risk of infecting other people, so if you break that contract you shouldn't be able to take full advantage of what society offers.