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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What do you think of Australia's vaccine policy?

603 replies

rampy · 25/11/2024 23:19

I'm born and bred Aussie. We live in WA and kids here can't go to kindy or school
without having been vaccinated. I have a couple of British friends who were so offended that they needed to vaccinate their kids they home schooled because 'well we'll just go back to the uk' but they've stayed and now need to get their kids vaccinated because they have no friends their own age and can't go to school without vaccines.

You can't apply for child related benefits if your kid isn't vaccinated either here.

Having seen NZ have just declared a whooping cough epidemic Id say I agree with WA stance I'm honest!

OP posts:
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Annabella92 · 26/11/2024 08:58

SereneFish · 26/11/2024 08:55

I would implement the same here but add many other restrictions to lessen the risk to others. I would remove religious exemption and any exemption except medical, with strict criteria.

It's part of the social contract that we minimise the risk of infecting other people, so if you break that contract you shouldn't be able to take full advantage of what society offers.

I think the social contract was shredded some time ago.....

DifficultBloodyWoman · 26/11/2024 08:59

Yalta · 26/11/2024 08:31

What happens when the doctor refuses the medical exemption certificate because they refuse to send you for an allergy test to prove you need one

it took me 60years and finally ending up on A&e to find out I am allergic to pretty much every shampoo, conditioner, body wash , cleaning product, laundry detergent and all vaccines

It’s Australia, not the NHS.

A GP will make referrals when requested.
You can also send yourself for an allergy test (self refer) to some medical practitioners.
And…you can even choose the doctor you want! (Most of the time - some may be so popular that they are not taking on new patients)

ChocolateTelephone · 26/11/2024 09:04

Yes, I personally agree with this policy.

Parents have the right to make decisions about whether their own children are vaccinated, but they don’t have the right to endanger other children with their choices. Children who can’t be vaccinated for legitimate reasons rely on herd immunity to keep them safe. Unvaccinated children decrease the efficacy of herd immunity and put vulnerable communities at risk.

I think it’s a great shame for the children of antivax parents, who are denied the benefits of community and may be in a position where they have to be educated by people who aren’t qualified to do it (depending on the abilities of their parents), but if a decision has to be made between protecting the educational attainment of some children or the lives of others, it’s the latter which must be prioritised.

The antivax movement is a force of evil, and its most frequent victims are the children of antivaxxers. Not only are they at significantly increased risk of illness and death, they end up excluded from community and opportunity as a result of their parents’ choices. It’s very very sad.

Saturdayssandwichsociety · 26/11/2024 09:15

maudelovesharold · 25/11/2024 23:24

I’m not a great fan of coercion. I think persuasion is the better option.

Its not coercion its applying a consequence to choices.
They don't have to vaccinate their kids nobody is actually forcing them, but its ensuring that they feel the consequences of choice, rather than the vulnerable individuals they put a risk.
Its a great policy

Artistbythewater · 26/11/2024 09:21

Saturdayssandwichsociety · 26/11/2024 09:15

Its not coercion its applying a consequence to choices.
They don't have to vaccinate their kids nobody is actually forcing them, but its ensuring that they feel the consequences of choice, rather than the vulnerable individuals they put a risk.
Its a great policy

It is coercion and forcing parents that can’t adequately home school to vaccinate. It’s not a free choice.

RingoJuice · 26/11/2024 09:22

I think the high trust in public health has abated after Covid. The push to vaccinate everyone with the Covid vaccine was deeply misguided and a lot of people are now suspicious of all vaccines. Huge own-goal tbh

LazyArsedMagician · 26/11/2024 09:26

I agree with this policy. Those that don't vaccinate their children are idiots.

Of course I will have to put this otherwise some will get offended - I'm OF COURSE not referring to those who have been advised not to vaccinate on medical grounds*.

My brother nearly died of whooping cough in the early 90s when our neighbours children got it and passed it on to him as a newborn. It has rather fashioned my strong opinion on this.

godmum56 · 26/11/2024 09:27

Annabmt · 25/11/2024 23:23

I am antivaccination if I can be, and we live in America. I would say that you should see if your friends can fill out an exemption form if possible. We have a religious exemption form so that we do not have to get vaccinations. I am pro-vaccine if they didn't add so many extra things into the vaccine, but they do.

like what?

WhatHoJeeves · 26/11/2024 09:35

I agree with the policy. Public health is the duty and obligation of everyone in society and, unless there are specific health reasons for not having a particular vaccine, anti-vaccination is just utter stupidity.

JohnTheRevelator · 26/11/2024 09:37

I'm a Brit and I actually think this sounds like a good policy.

godmum56 · 26/11/2024 09:37

TheSandgroper · 25/11/2024 23:47

We will always have mandatory vaccinations here. There are exemptions - anaphylactic to egg is one, as many vaccines are grown on eggs - but we know what happens when Northern Hemisphere diseases gets into the Aboriginal population. The results were devastating.

A few years ago, we did have a case go to court over an alleged vaccine injury where the child was left severely disabled but I can’t remember the result of that.

Many First Nations people now live in third world levels of poverty and their health reflects this.

No government wants that much blood on their hands again. I think one of the reasons WA had such draconian Covid laws was because of this.

Another on the fencer here.....I am totally pro vac but I think that the no vac=no school is perhaps going to radicalise some parents and take their children away from safety. A child at risk is a child at risk and deserves the same level of care, also the consequence here falls on the child in terms of their future. I'd also like to see it supported by a scheme that quickly and generously compensates children injured by vaccinations without recourse to the courts. vaccines are safe so this shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.

BigFatLiar · 26/11/2024 09:38

Headinthesand21 · 26/11/2024 00:10

Sorry but you are so misinformed. Nothing else is ‘added into vaccines’ other than the necessary elements and carrier. This is pure conspiracy and is so harmful. Why on earth would any religion preclude you from protecting your own children and others.

Nah, a man on the bus told me that Bill Gates has nano bots added to all vaccines so that the NBA can track you by satellite from space. He knowsvits true he saw it on the Simpsons.

Rummly · 26/11/2024 09:41

I’d adopt the policy but go further.

In the event of outbreaks of childhood diseases, any non-vaccinating parent should be liable for massive damages payable for pain and suffering caused by the disease to children who are vaccinated or medically exempt.

A few thousand bankruptcies among anti-vaxxers would focus their minds effectively.

That’s not coercion (nor is denying schooling): it’s making anti-vaxxers responsible for their foolish, selfish choices.

Honeycrisp · 26/11/2024 09:41

Does the Australian policy include a covid vaccine requirement? Can imagine that being a harder sell than some of the others, speaking as someone who's had it.

godmum56 · 26/11/2024 09:48

RingoJuice · 26/11/2024 09:22

I think the high trust in public health has abated after Covid. The push to vaccinate everyone with the Covid vaccine was deeply misguided and a lot of people are now suspicious of all vaccines. Huge own-goal tbh

I think that the mistrust rot set in when the now disproved "multi vaccination can cause/trigger Down Syndrome" issue happened. I don't think that Tony Blair's government handled it at all well, also the BMJ's failure to adequately verify the paper made things worse. I think that health advice in general still seems to treat adults like idiots. When the new adjuvanted flu vaccine came in for over 60's, just before covid, the change wasn't widely publicised and where it was, people were told basically that there was no difference except it was more effective. At the same time, in the US the public were being told that the adjuvanted vaccine was safe and much more effective but the side effects could be more severe which was more honest and true.

Mirabai · 26/11/2024 09:49

I don’t think medical treatment should ever be compulsory. Free and informed consent should always be the baseline.

BigFatLiar · 26/11/2024 09:53

I believe that the level of uptake on some vaccines in the UK is starting to fall below that required for 'herd immunity'. This is starting to cause increases in cases of infectious diseases.

FelixtheAardvark · 26/11/2024 09:53

Sounds fair enough to me.

CharlotteRumpling · 26/11/2024 09:55

Mirabai · 26/11/2024 09:49

I don’t think medical treatment should ever be compulsory. Free and informed consent should always be the baseline.

Its not medical treatment, no? It's to stop stupid people killing others.

LastTrainsEast · 26/11/2024 10:05

mothra · 26/11/2024 07:40

You can attend school in Victoria (in Oz), but not daycare/ kindergarten.

There is a small penalty applied to the child benefit payable if your child is unvaccinated, but it is still available.

The dependent child rebate is not available at tax time for unvaccinated children (I think it's worth around $700).

After the Covid nonsense this state experienced, I have had enough of public health authoritarianism. State mandated medical treatment is a hard no from me. Clearly, many others disagree.

Society has to balance personal freedom and the welfare and rights of others.

Presumably you'd agree that if I had some disease that killed anyone I touched I should not be allowed on crowded trains.

On the other hand the common cold is so common there's no reasonable way to avoid spreading it.

You have to draw a line somewhere. Wherever you draw it some will die and some others will be inconvenienced. Some who were inconvenienced may feel it was drawn in the wrong place and that's a valid opinion, but society has to do its best to keep everyone safe.

DinosaurMunch · 26/11/2024 10:06

UhhhhhhhOK · 25/11/2024 23:23

You have to show vaccinations for uk schools as well. Each to their own.

Edited

No you don't

TheSandgroper · 26/11/2024 10:12

In WA, they said “No Covid vaccine, no entry to the bottle shop (off licence).”

It worked.

BertieBotts · 26/11/2024 10:21

Honestly the thing that changed my mind was looking at the impact seatbelt/child seat laws have had.

You can educate people until you're blue in the face and it doesn't work - we are just not built like that. Not for issues like this. The problem is that you can go about everyday life being unvaccinated, or drive around without a seatbelt, for years, decades even, and have absolutely nothing bad happen. The only time something bad will happen is if you have a crash or if you come into contact with an infectious pathogen. Those things are rare - and outweighed by uncountable experiences of not needing the protective thing and having been fine. In general, we (as in, humans) are built to learn from experience, not theory. We can learn from theory of course. And second hand experience - very few people who see the consequences of non-vaccination or not wearing seatbelts would advocate for the safety of not using these things. (That's why PSAs tend to be so shocking/frightening/emotional). And some people are very risk averse and would go for the most protective option anyway just in case. But for the vast majority of people, repeated experience of the non-protective option makes it seem mundane, ordinary, and safe. That is simply how human psychology works and you can't easily change it.

Laws though for this kind of thing do tend to change behaviour. You can have routes out for people who are really genuinely concerned because ultimately the behaviour of a minority doesn't really matter in terms of achieving the overall goal. But the majority of people don't actually feel that strongly either way. Nobody really likes having an injection or taking their child for one. Nobody likes the hassle of car seats. It is slightly less comfortable to wear a seatbelt than not wear one. Without anything saying you HAVE to do these things, a lot of people will simply not bother. But the moment you make it slightly inconvenient not to do them, it starts to change the social/cultural narrative. These days it is just completely normal to wear a seatbelt and you're seen as a bit of an idiot if you don't.

I don't think it's helpful to write off vaccine-hesitant parents as "idiots" or "crazy" - I think it's actually just a really glaring symptom that there is a growing group of people who distrust medicine and authority/government in general, and that is the problem - why don't they trust? Usually because they don't feel listened to. So I think it's hugely important to listen to those groups and understand what their actual gripes are. Not easily debunkable things like ingredients of vaccines because you can argue back and forth all day on that even though the info is clear and easy to find. No, go to the deep root, and you'll find things like sexism, racism, classism and even horrific crimes perpetrated against minority or disadvantaged groups by governments, medical authorities and so on. That's what needs to be addressed. From the everyday (stop dismissing women's health concerns) to the historical (much better acknowledgement of old harms and new systems in place to prevent anything like "cleansing" ever happening ever again) and the future (encourage young people from underrepresented groups to enter medicine and medical research, politics and government). Also proper funding of the NHS would help so that everyone who needs care can access care.

Katemax82 · 26/11/2024 10:23

I agree with getting your kids normal childhood vaccines but does it include the covid vaccine? Because if it does its barbaric

TheLyingBitchintheWardrobe · 26/11/2024 10:24

Annabmt · 25/11/2024 23:23

I am antivaccination if I can be, and we live in America. I would say that you should see if your friends can fill out an exemption form if possible. We have a religious exemption form so that we do not have to get vaccinations. I am pro-vaccine if they didn't add so many extra things into the vaccine, but they do.

Like what? What do they add in? Why is the risk too much NOT to vaccinate your child. Measles can kill you know.