To ask teachers about disruptive behaviour in secondary schools?

[mimblewimble]

I hear of so many teachers leaving the profession, or describing how they work in extremely stressful conditions, with student behaviour being awful and seemingly getting worse.

My kids report so much disruption in class at their school, which is apparently one of the best local state schools.

As I write this I'm thinking I'm probably BU just for asking teachers anything as I'm sure you don't have loads of spare time and mental energy!

But I'm interested in what teachers would like to see done to tackle behaviour in secondary schools - are there changes that you think would help?

Or do you work in a school where the behaviour is good, and if so why do you think that is?

Parents could let their kids know adults are authority for a start.

So much of what we used to take for granted is no longer there, kids don’t know to say hello when they enter a room. They don’t know to respect adults, accept boundaries and do as they’re told. Gentle parenting has a lot of answer for.

Parents don’t seem as willing to be be in charge and that’s had a huge impact on what kids think they can do in classrooms and how they communicate.

aLl bEhAvIoR Is cOmMuNiCaTiOn, has a lot of answer for.

It would be a start if parents could teach them basic manners like not barging through doors. Listening without interrupting. Not feeling they have to express every thought the minute they think it.

Parents refuse to believe what their children do. If I report a child has told me to fuck off, more often than not I’m told I’m lying, or that it’s my fault (for marking them late for the lesson or asking them to write something). I’d say the vast majority of parents I contact about abusive behaviour throw it straight back at me.

Complete lack of desire to learn from some pupils, complete lack of respect for anyone else in the room with the result being constant disruption and a situation where it’s impossible for anyone to learn . Lack of parental support when trying to address this.

The answer to your question lies in the question: it’s managers who don’t know anything about teaching making decisions for and about teachers. It’s parents who believe teachers should parent their children. It’s the way teaching is ridiculed in movies and TV as something only losers do. It’s the feminisation of the workforce due to low status and low wages, which means kids sometimes never encounter a male teacher in the midst of a world telling them women are problems. It’s relentless, time consuming admin that takes precedence over relationships with kids. It’s class and school sizes. All these factors walk into a classroom every day.

I am a teacher who is leaving at Xmas, not because of behaviour but because after 8 years teaching I am going back to my previous business career. As an older person who worked outside education, my behaviour management is a lot better than those who have only ever taught as they have never been in a workplace where people are generally polite.

Most parents are mostly decent, however there is a significant minority that have absolutely no control over their children. This starts from day 1 with permissive parenting. By the teen years, parents can't possibly pull it back. Sadly these children think they can do what they want, when they want. ^^

My DH is a teacher at secondary and like pp's say it's a lack of respect, entitled behaviour and thinking that they shouldn't get consequences.

Lack of respect, sense of entitlement, and absolutely no support from parents! Those are the top 3 things that need fixing!

The parents are the issue, many don't respect authority and are just as aggressive as the children. Or are struggling with their own disabilities and illiteracy.

Increased SEND due to people surviving longer / being born earlier due to medical advances and schools that can't adequately meet their needs. Closure of specialist SEND schools so more are in mainstream and can't cope.

Shorter lunch breaks so children don't get to regulate and run around - this saves on staffing and if children only have enough time to eat (if they manage to get through the canteen queue) they don't have time to fight.

Curriculum pressures - too much, at too fast a pace for the majority of students. They don't understand so misbehave.

DV and toxic masculinity go hand in hand at making teaching difficult if you are a female teacher in secondary.

Ever increasing class sizes, more and more housing estates being built with no infrastructure in place.

I attended the school I later taught at, the experiences were chalk and cheese. However it's also about leadership, DD attends another High school less than a mile away so same demographic of cohort but they approach things completely differently and her experience has been positive and her school has low staff turn over.

Primary school teacher here but I agree with everything the previous posters have said.
If I say your child called me a cunt and threw a chair at me then first of all believe me, secondly actually do something about it.

And all children lie, all of them. Some more than others, but they all do.

Support from parents.
Parents willing to discipline at home even when it is difficult. Most parents don't do this as simply put they find it unpleasant and they prefer to be their teens friend.
Parents required legally to attend meetings etc about their children.
More adults in the classroom. TAs who can support students
Smaller class sizes
More vocational/ work related courses for students who are not academic and are thoroughly disinterested in y10 and y11

Totally agree.

I left recently and miss it terribly. Poor behaviour wasn't the reason but it was certainly a factor. I was a good teacher with lots of experience but the constant lack of resilience, taking responsibility and lack of respect grinds you down. I worked in an area of huge socioeconomic deprivation and we did so much for the students. I enjoyed it. I miss the kids. But my own mental health was suffering and affecting my ability to parent my own kids.

Kids never having equipment, deliberately arriving late, constant low level disruption from a lot of kids, not just one or two. Then when challenged they get mouthy. Being told to F off at least twice a week, being ridiculed for a disability I have.....it's exhausting. And unfortunately schools do not have the backing of the parents and often don't care. So all schools can do is give a detention and exclude.

My daughter’s school is hot on behaviour, NOTHING gets through. They start with uniform, parents and children will start trying to undermine that policy first but school won’t have it.
The result has been all the wishy washy parents with children who need to express themselves 24 7 have helpfully buggered off and my daughter attends an excellent school which has a waiting list.
it took a LOT of hard work from the school though and they had to be really tough with the PARENTS!!

The basic idea that children are there to learn, not be entertained is something that I'd like to be acknowledged. Also basic manners and respect often aren't there. I am strict, I never talk over students talking and I follow our behaviour system fully (students are removed for consistent disruption). But I've had parents say I'm 'bullying' their child because I have to keep telling them to get on with their work or reinforcing behaviour rules with them!

I’ve just started at a new school where behaviour is excellent. Pupils are respectful and friendly. It’s in a leafy suburb although there are about 25% EFSM. Pupil premium. I can teach a lesson without interruption and the vast majority try their best. My previous school had appalling behaviour. In the middle of a large council estate, with 45% EFSM, I was there for 20 years. I saw behaviour deteriorating over the years to the point that it was hugely affecting the mental health both of the respectful pupils and of the staff. Most people would not believe what goes on in some schools. We had gangs on children truanting in the corridors, storming the staff room, kicking in doors, breaking CCTV. Swearing at teachers is commonplace. Just asking a child to start work could be enough to be told to F off. A horrible environment.
Edited to add-in my previous school I could have up to 15 pupils attending lessons with no pen. Most would not ask politely, but would come up with some variation of , if you want me to write anything you’ve got to give me a pen. Often the pen was deliberately broken too.

Trouble is- schools get constantly criticised for those strict rules.
Everyone wants a calm and ordered school for their kids, but no one thinks that their children need to follow the same rules.

Little things like- sanctions for equipment for example, all contribute to a calm start to a lesson- but then schools are told from parents that this is not acceptable or a minor issue.

Posted elsewhere this week about a detention I gave two children who were poking pencils in an electrical socket. Parents complained that it was unkind to give them a 30 min and the deputy head removed the detention…

This!

Many parents refuse to believe staff about behaviour, even if there are witnesses and it happens repeatedly.
There is a culture of parents treating kids as mates and it means there is little respect for adults they meet outside of the home, even the police.
Many children are chronically overtired because of tech, anxious and self conscious because of social media and either eating absolute junk before school or nothing at all. Concentration is affected, as is mood. Parents do not want to deal with their child’s upset by taking tech away at night, instead they push for a diagnosis of some kind. ADHD of course exists but excess sugar, energy drinks, coffee, lack of sleep and constant blue light will mimic many of the symptoms.
The effective management of behaviour in schools is key to everything and a relentless job with few real joys!

At my school generally behaviour is good. I'm expected to be able to teach. If a student misbehaves I can give them a warning. On the third incidence they are removed from the lesson and given a detention.

For me it's the workload that is crazy. I teach full time. I get 5 free periods a fortnight for planning and assessment. On top of that there are so many other jobs that need doing. Feedback on students to other staff. Calling parents to discuss their child's behaviour. Dealing with emails. Training for safeguarding, teaching, software. Setting homework and recording who has and has not done it. Meetings to discuss progress or a deep dive or to get feedback on a drop in. Organising extracurricular activities or visitors. I have set reading tasks for my professional development. Running after school clubs, lunchtime support for students or revision lessons before or after school. This week I have a parents evening, after school club and an after school meeting. Plus I know someone else wants to meet with me to discuss progress of a particular class. Later today I will spend hours marking coursework and a set of mock papers because I know I won't get time in my working week to do it.

Surprised by pp's saying gentle parenting is to blame. I've never met anyone in real life who does full on gentle parenting. I know lots of parents who listen to their kids and respect them more than perhaps the generation before did as standard, if stereotypes are true, but not to the extent of excusing everything. When did gentle parenting peak? Wondering if I've missed it somehow. My kids are in primary school.

I hear what you’re saying but it may shock you to know these behaviour difficulties are present in nursery, gradually becoming seriously problematic in early primary. It is an organic curve, it really is. Lack of boundaries being put in at home so children don’t feel safe in terms of having an obvious person in charge. Parents not having an option to stay at home when kids are babies and need the time. Too much pressure it’s all very sad but behaviour is 100 times worse than you imagine. Massive investment in families is needed and a return to parents respecting the authority of schools.

I woke as a SEN TA in a Secondary School. I was really shocked by the behaviour when I first started. I agree with everything that's been said. For a lot of children, school is the only place they encounter discipline.

Things like Facebook don't help. People get together and bitch and moan about staff without having a clue what their child is like. Parents seem unable to accept their child can be a little shit (my child included). Parents no longer trust the education system and staff. I do understand that.