To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

I do think pedestrians should consider whether they ought to wear hi-viz at certain times of year, yes.

If you're staying on a lit pavement, won't be crossing a road, carpark etc, fine do as you please.

If, as many where I live will, you'll be crossing unlit roads, walking down unlit roads with no pavement, crossing unlit carparks... then yes, put some hi-viz on, you're not made of bloody magic!

I nearly ran someone over in my wheelchair a few days back, all in black, unlit pavement... the only reason I spotted her was that her DOG had hi-viz on and i realised a dog with a hi-viz harness and lead on had to be attached to a human somewhere (only the first foot of lead was a hi-vis sleeve though, the rest of the fully extended flexi lead was not, so actually spotting her wasn't that easy!).

I've got a vest on the back of the chair or wrapped around the bag on the back of the chair, and leg and armbands on myself, lights on one chair sadly not on the NHS supplied chair (lights are an extra option, spendy), despite it being an indoor/outdoor chair. When I had the scooter that had hi vis on the back of the chair, lights, and a flag with a light and pennant on it as I often had to go on the road.

Someone I went to school with sued someone else I went to school with for the damage she caused to his car when he hit her after she crossed the road from behind an icecream van. He won. I'm not saying I could have done that, but still. It isn't always the driver's fault in the eyes of the law.

I do think pedestrians should consider whether they ought to wear hi-viz at certain times of year, yes.

Exactly, I'm not sure why so many people find it such an outlandish suggestion.

We live rurally and it's quite common to see school children and dog-walkers in reflective gear on pavements in the evenings, or using a headtorch down un-lit paths.

Of course you don't need to wear it in a well-lit town centre, but if you're going to be crossing badly lit roads it's common sense, surely? I have high-vis gear for dog walking and the dog has a light-up collar too.

If there’s a lot of people about and a zebra crossing you should be driving slowly enough to be able to stop and be looking out on the approach, even from the side

On a busy town street where there's a constant stream of pedestrians, that would mean you can never proceed just in case one of those pedestrians takes it into their head to start walking across the road. Because slowly enough to prevent hitting someone who just steps out at the very split second you are passing is 0mph

it’s common sense, not a single person is making that argument.

But they are - it's being said in this thread that under all and every circumstances it's the drivers fault if they hit someone, however erratic or stupid the actions of the pedestrian/cyclist are.

WiddlinDiddlin

....put some hi-viz on, you're not made of bloody magic!...

Thanks, that made me smile.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v3ygmj0glo

many drivers have crashed into parked police cars, hi viz, flashing lights won't help if the driver isn't looking.

The message constantly is about the vulnerable making themselves safe - it needs to be drivers start looking, concentrate on what you're doing.

Nothing wrong with wearing bright clothing, but drivers need to be looking to see you

@Allergictoironing No you wouldn't have to be doing 0mph. You approach a zebra or pedestrian crossing. You scan both sides on approach. If there's someone close to the kerb or turning towards the kerb it's a reasonable assumption they'll cross. Many people will be in the middle of the pavement, walking body turned forward so it's a reasonable assumption they are not crossing. You don't need to stop but you do need to keep observing in case they do decide to cross and have prepared to stop should you need to.

At 20mph you've got about 12metres stopping distance. That's 3 cars. Probably less as you don't need the thinking time as you are expecting them to cross. But you've probably actually slowed below 20mph and so your stopping distance is less. So unless they actually jump and dive right in front of you and surprise you it would be highly unlikely you'd hit them.

You learn this when you learn to drive and it's part of the hazard perception. I think you are being deliberately silly tbh and you know exactly what PP means which is after all in the Highway Code so hopefully you are doing that.

In my local area in the last ten years two people have been hit on the same pedestrian crossing. One person was killed. It's on a busy high street but people speed across it every day or are on phones still moving forward if the traffic is heavier. There's nothing blocking the view of it and it's a crossing with beacons. So impossible to miss it is a crossing. Nonetheless the council having been petitioned, moved the crossing, widened it and about a year later someone else got hit. Wasn't killed fortunately. The pavements are wide. It's very easy to see if someone is about to cross but too many drivers are speeding or just not looking. A lot don't even wait for you to fully cross before they proceed. There just needs to be more caution and care.

Y'all are never going to reach a solution if you use extreme examples to make the opposite stance seem unreasonable.

Cyclists are required to wear hi Vis, if not, it's recommended and should be law so, it makes sense for pedestrians but of course, we're talking about poorly lit areas here. If you were running on dark country roads in fog if you had any common sense you'd be lit up like a Christmas tree 😂 I regularly see young school kids being walked by teachers wearing hi Vis in the middle of the day- it's just safety. I can't imagine a parent objecting his child's liberty to roam without hi vis was being infringed upon 😂

I'm not interested in fining people for not wearing hi Vis, it's just safety, unless of course it's those crazy kids (typically) who are just a danger to everyone - I'd like them fined and banned or restricted. It's the wild west these days with no rules regulations or consequences for non drivers or at least it seems that way.

If someone jumps in front of you and you can't stop in time I don't think you're getting off in most cases. It's going to be hard to prove for one thing, so I'm thinking any circumstances you can use to help your defence are only going to reduce your sentence.

Blabla won't let me delete

How on Earth does someone get sued for injuring a car? She must have not turned up to court 😂

Whilst travelling along a rural unclassified by wide road, i came very close to hitting a pedestrian at night, no light, no hi viz.

If i had hit him, its 100% my fault, i ve fuck off bright headlights, i didn't see him because he/she was unexpected, my brain was looking for cars... not a lone walker... it was my mistake, so own it OP, you re the driver, take responsibility.

As far as i can see, the OP had plenty of time to make a note of everything he was wearing, so perhaps her earlier attention should have been look around her surroundings as he approached?

She is the one in the ton of metal that kills around 1800 people each year in the uk... 300 of them children

I drive along a side road to my house. The cars coming towards me (on the main road) make people invisible if they're in dark clothing.

I stop a few times a year (in winter) and make it plain to people that they're going to get hit if they don't wear something brighter as they can't be seen. Most of them take it on board, I've only had one man tell me to fuck off, in 20 years.

Absolutely agree and some pedestrians too. I quite often want to stop cyclists and shout at them. Dressed like tadpoles, no lights and no reflective stripes. Pain in the neck.

Really?! Maybe motorists should look where they're going! I've had numerous drivers nearly reverse into me because they don't bother checking their mirrors that there's no one behind them. My DGD actually got knocked over by a reversing motorist outside her school a couple of years ago. The driver was on his phone.

Drive slower? Your journey sounds like its farrrr more important than anyone else's

You'll be the one fined/banned even prison if you kill a cyclist... there is no legal requirement to have lights etc in day light.

Tell you what, I'll start wearing hi-vis if drivers do the following:

Replace their ultra-bright pedestrian-dazzling headlights with something safer. Yes, this is a growing problem.

Slow down at minor junctions to allow pedestrians who are obviously waiting to cross. It's not going to kill you to wait 30 seconds.

Park your car entirely on the road, not partly on the pavement. I regularly have to walk out into oncoming traffic to get down my road.

Don't drive faster than 20 mph in a built up area. You really don't need to travel faster than this in the suburbs.

Don't leave you car engine idling, especially at the school pick up. Children won't thank you when they have an asthma attack.

Last, ask your self if you really need to use the car for your journey. Five minute car journey or 15 minute walk? Come on, it's not hard.

Tbh I’m a cyclist and cyclists that don’t have lights annoy me. It is the law and I will tell other cyclists off for that.

I don’t get the I can’t see people if they aren’t in high visibility cause I’m blinded by oncoming headlights thing. Yes some headlights are bright but if you can’t see properly you need to stop or slow down, if you’re that blinded a hi vis vest ain’t making a difference. I don’t routinely wear hi vis on my bike because it makes no difference. people’ still say they can’t see you cause they aren’t looking. I’ve been reversed into whilst wearing hi vis and I can see the mirror and that nobody is looking in it. Didn’t see me? In the day glo green helmet and fluorescent yellow jacket in broad daylight? No if you’re not looking you won’t see.

I would wear it on country of unlit roads where people might not be expecting me to be, but I think people are again too quick to put the blame on vulnerable road users rather than their own shortcomings.

Absolutely agree with all of that apart from the last one. The LED headlights are a massive issue for everyone, including other motorists.

However a 5 minute car journey is not a 15 minute walk.

In a lot of cities a 5min car journey is a 15 min walk though as when you add in parking or congestion it’s often quicker to cycle certainly and sometimes walk 15 mins. Most fit people could walk a mile in 15 mins. Frequently I’ll arrive before someone in a car on my bike. But think the point is consider if you have to drive rather than it being the default. As if everyone drives nobody moves and other modes can take up less space/be more efficient depending on the situation.

obviously not everyone can walk or cycle but people are quick to dismiss it for some journeys when it really could be the best option if you can,

When we moved to our new build it was winter and there were no streetlights or usable pavements for the first year…I wore flashing lights clipped to my bag and coat walking from the station. The darkness was disconcerting as there was only 1% of the phase completed. I made sure I was visible to drivers etc.

@AngeloMysterioso OP what car do you drive? SUVs have notoriously poor visibility because they are so poorly designed. I suggest driving a smaller car instead if you are not already in a small car.

True for secondary school children too -come out of school late afternoon, daylight fading, wearing dark blazers or coats, dark grey trousers or skirts, and they are invisible. They need hi-viz too.

This, sadly. The runner is an idiot

I doubt you'd have much of a defence in a court of law that you didn't see a moving object on the road if you were paying due care and attention.

I think the issue here is that yes, there ARE some really crap unobservant drivers out there, but equally even for a good, safe highly observant driver there are some pedestrians and cyclists who act in a completely thoughtless manner.

I don't jump lights, I always stop at a pedestrian crossing if I see someone waiting or even looking like they are going to cross - yes I mean you, you dopey teen who was standing like they were waiting to cross the other day & when I stopped for them gave me a dirty look, put 2 fingers up at me then strolled away from the crossing, still on their phone. But equally it is mentally impossible to be 100% aware of all the things that any one of the dozens of pedestrians on the pavements nearby may take it into their heads to do.

But I can't stop for everyone who walks near the edge of the pavement anywhere near a crossing, and even if I slow right down to little more than a walking pace you still get the odd person suddenly change direction & just walk out in front of a car without thinking of looking.

I understand that as a car driver I am responsible for a potentially fatal vehicle, and I do take care, but maybe just maybe all pedestrians should also be aware of the cars on the roads and at least look before leaping out.

Not all motorists are crap but some are. And equally not all pedestrians and cyclists are crap, but some definitely are. A touch of responsibility from both sides is what I'm asking for.