To think it is 100% this runner’s fault that I almost hit him?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

On my way to pick DS2 up from nursery with DS1 and DS3 up, around 20 past 5 so it’s already dark. There’s a queue to turn at a T junction and a small cul-de-sac on the left so I’d stopped just before the cul-de-sac to let people out/in. A few cars have pulled out so I’m slowly moving forward after checking mirrors when a runner goes diagonally across the road from behind my right, directly in front of another car going the other way and then in front of my car and I have to stamp on my brake so I don’t hit him. He is wearing:

• trainers- I didn’t see what colour but they definitely weren’t white or anything particularly bright or visible
• black running leggings and shorts
• a dark green long sleeved tshirt
• black gloves
• a dark grey beanie
• literally no bright or reflective items of clothing or accessories whatsoever.

After narrowly avoiding him I beeped my horn, at which point he turned around, swore at me and carried on running. I saw him running up and then around the corner, and further down that road I witnessed him running straight across a zebra crossing without pausing at all to make sure there were no cars approaching.

I didn’t hit him. But AIBU to think if I had, it would not have been my fault, given that he was wearing dark clothing and nothing reflective so he was barely visible, and ran straight in front of my car? I mean how fucking stupid can you be?

Actually, there have been cases where drivers have been cleared (or given a vastly reduced sentence) due to lack of visibility - and if you have dashcam footage that proves the pedestrian couldn't be seen, your defence would be even stronger.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/pedestrian-virtually-invisible-before-killed-2005843

Drivers cannot be expected to drive around at 5mph just in case someone decides to walk in front of them without looking in the pitch black. Yes, you have to be careful and do your due diligence, but equally, pedestrians do have a responsibility to keep themselves safe and not to behave like total idiots - something that's backed up by the highway code.

How on Earth does someone get sued for injuring a car? She must have not turned up to court 😂

The damage caused to it. I didn't think he had a cat in hell's chance but there you go 🤷‍♀️

Interesting, but I doubt the OP would have the same defence since they were travelling at a crawl and there will have been plenty of lighting - if not street lighting then certainly lighting from many other cars.

How was she supposed to see someone all in black appearing from her blind spot, while simultaneously moving forward? It would be hard even in the middle of the day, let alone at night with loads of headlights dazzling you.

I mentioned it upthread, but I had a near miss with a cyclist last week on an NSL road. It was about 4pm, so not pitch black, but the road had no streetlights and this idiot was dressed all in black with no bike lights on, at the edge of a road with a ditch on one side. I had to slam on my brakes when I saw him as he was only about 10m ahead of my car when I realised he was there. It really shook me up as he was genuinely invisible. I heard him being honked at a few seconds later too.

Cyclists and pedestrians seem to have no idea how vulnerable they are without lights and reflective gear.

I hate driving in the dark for this reason. Especially when there is the glare of lights, anything that isn’t fluorescent or reflective is hard to see.
Is it possible he thought you were waiting for him? He should have had high vis on but if you are pulling away after having stopped it is your responsibility as a driver to be aware of hazards, be that bikes, scooters, children, motorcycles, or runners that don’t wear high vis. It is frustrating that people don’t make it easier for themselves to be seen but legally I don’t think you can blame him for thinking he could cross in front of you if you had stopped already.
The horn is meant to be used as a warning - if you beeped it before he ran in your path then that is ok, but beeping it after almost hitting a pedestrian is a bit rude, I don’t think many people would take this well.

I had a near miss with a phone driver on Thursday

she was on the phone in a queue of traffic, we stood waiting to cross. It would have been ok to cross but we knew she hadn’t seen us and as the car in front moved forward - so did she without looking 👀

thankfully we had clicked she was on the phone, but for other pedestrians stood on that middle reservation it might well be different

drivers should be looking, at least out of the windscreen. It wouldn’t have mattered if we’d had flashing lights, bells and orange stripes. Her mind was on the phone

After he’d run in front of my car I watched him run up to the top of the road and round the corner. Then when I got to the corner and was continuing on I saw him run straight across the road without so much as glancing left or right. I don’t know what I’m supposed to “own” here.

2008 Ford fiesta

Interested that you could watch this runner"s progress at some distance and can describe in great detail his clothing.
But not notice him close to?

Well yes, because I couldn’t see him when he was behind me, lacking as I do a set of eyes in the back of my head. But I could see him when he was in front of me. That’s how line of sight works.

@AngeloMysterioso In the situation you described and the positioning of the pedestrian, as a pedestrian I would not have crossed in front of your moving car. I would have crossed behind you and also made eye contact with the driver behind you to ensure that they see me. The driver behind you was in a better position to see me as I would be directly in front of them.

Also, when I was a kid in primary school we were taught road safety. We were taught never to run across the road, to walk across the road. Stop, look and listen before you cross the road. Good advice.

As a driver checking your blind spots involves looking in two different directions for both sides of your vehicle. There are a total of three different directions to check: left, right, forward (if driving forwards) or backwards (through rear window if reversing). No one can be looking in these three directions simultaneously. No matter how careful they are. Which is why running suddenly into the path of a moving vehicle is not a reasonable thing to do.

Even driving slowly there is still a stopping distance and a reaction time.

It’s not just about following the letter of the law, it’s about having reasonable expectations, good judgment and being aware. That applies to everyone.

Op, you managed to stop in time and avoid hitting the pedestrian. You did brilliantly. The pedestrian was reckless. And not only did they risk being hit by a car they probably gave you quite a fright.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but cars have mirrors. Runners don't teleport into your blind spot. He will have run into your blind spot and out again. You'd have noticed if you were paying attention. Yes, he was a bit idiotic but would he have been 100% to blame if you'd have hit him? No. Would you, if you'd have hit him? Probably, yes.

I am from Australia, so unfamiliar with the highway code in the UK. Some pp have been intriguing. So, I have looked up the highway code. It seems to me that it backs up a lot of what drivers on this thread are saying. And I have not yet found a section that backs up the view that the Op was in the wrong and the pedestrian in this incident was right. Or anything that puts the whole responsibility onto the driver and pedestrians can cross however they like. According to what I have read the pedestrian did a number of things wrong.

They did not make sure that they were easily visible. They crossed diagonally. They ran. They didn’t check that it was safe to cross the road.

A few examples from the highway code:

A. First find a safe place to cross and where there is space to reach the pavement on the other side.

Try to avoid crossing between parked cars (see Rule 14), on a blind bend, or close to the brow of a hill. Move to a space where drivers and riders can see you clearly. Do not cross the road diagonally.

C. Look all around for traffic and listen. Traffic could come from any direction. Listen as well, because you can sometimes hear traffic before you see it.

D. If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time.

E. When it is safe, go straight across the road – do not run. Keep looking and listening for traffic while you cross, in case there is any traffic you did not see, or in case other traffic appears suddenly. Look out for cyclists and motorcyclists travelling between lanes of traffic. Do not walk diagonally across the road.

14
Parked vehicles. If you have to cross between parked vehicles, use the outside edges of the vehicles as if they were the kerb. Stop there and make sure you can see all around and that the traffic can see you. Make sure there is a gap between any parked vehicles on the other side, so you can reach the pavement. Never cross the road in front of, or behind, any vehicle with its engine running, especially a large vehicle, as the driver may not be able to see you.

15
Reversing vehicles. Never cross behind a vehicle which is reversing, showing white reversing lights or sounding a warning.

17
At night. Wear something reflective to make it easier for others to see you (see Rule 3). If there is no pedestrian crossing nearby, cross the road near a street light so that traffic can see you more easily.

3. Crossings (18 to 30)
18
At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should

always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing
always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous.
You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 19 & RTRA sect 25(5)

19
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-pedestrians-crossing-the-road.html

Yes.

The fact of the matter is stopping for someone is limited by physics. When you can see them, your body's reaction time, and how quickly the car breaks to a stop.

If pedestrians do things like jump out in front of your car, or wear camouflage, it will limit what is possible for even a conscientious driver can do.

And wearing camouflage is what people wearing all dark clothes at night are doing. And when people run across the street at speed, or zip across with a scooter, it starts to test the limits of reaction time, both the driver and the vehicle.

We were always taught as kids that pedestrians had to make sure they were visible, and should stop at crossings and look before going across, not just to make sure it was safe but to give a vehicle enough chance to stop.

Your poor colleague.

I swear most accidents are caused by people "trying to be civil" rather than just following the highway code....

It's the newish pedestrian law that they have right of way. In theory it's a good idea but in reality it's going to cause accidents. I've nearly hit a runner before on a totally unlit country lane, all in black running towards me, it was a 60mph lane and I swerved last minute. Was terrifying but I didn't see him until he was right Infront me.

I’m a driving instructor. This is one of my main topic during lessons at this time of year. People literally become invisible. I absolutely detest the lack of education people have whilst running/walking/cycling. Our local school insists on black coats and black bags, the foolishness of that just frustrates me.

People can believe it’s always the motorists fault but that won’t stop death or a life changing injury. We all need to play our part in improving road safety, it’s a shared responsibility. Us drivers need to keep our observations good and eyesight checked, and speed down in the dark when visibility is affected, likewise vulnerable road users need to be aware they have a responsibility not to run out in front of vehicles dressed in dark clothing. Had it happened to me I’d have had a big chat with the person if I could stop them.

What they don’t realise is whilst us instructors do our very best to prepare new drivers for all eventualities there are still inexperienced people on the roads (some of whom haven’t had a single lesson with an instructor). They can and do make mistakes. Arguing about responsibility means nothing in the face of a disaster.

Unfortunately there are 3 of these mirrors, all placed a distance apart. You can't concentrate on the driver side mirror at the same time as the passenger side mirror, or the rear view mirror in the centre. Plus of course looking out of the front the majority of the time as that's your usual direction of travel.

So you're looking out of the front of the car, switch your attention to the driver's side mirror & absorb whatever you see there, then your eyes flick to the left side mirror & check that, then the rear view mirror, then back out of the front (which is where your main focus needs to be). By the time you look back at the driver's side mirror it's easy for someone running to have approached from the rear quarter and come level with the front of your car. And you can't spend your entire time flicking from one mirror to the other and focussing out of the front all at the same time.

I think this post just shows how skewed our opinions are since car driving became the norm.
The human standing at the side of the road (in other words just being a human in the environment they live and work in) is not “stupidly dangerous”. The stupidly dangerous thing is the human careering around that environment in a giant metal box, probably going too fast for the conditions (dark, winding, back country road) and then having the ‘crap scared out of them’ to see that human.
It seems to me that you have come to see humans that aren’t in a giant metal box as somehow alien in their natural environment and are shocked to see them and feel offended by them.

Ridiculous. Cars are a thing, and a standing invisible on a road is going to get you killed. You can lament this all you want, but if you don't do it in high Vis, you will get squashed by a car and it will be your own fault.

There's a lot of nonsense on this thread. If someone all in black runs right out in front of you on a dark night, that's their fault. They're suicidal.

This, it always amazes me how trusting they are that someone else is taking responsibility for their safety! Especially since the quality of driving in London is pretty low.

I think part of the problem is that unless you are a driver yourself you aren’t always aware of how invisible you can be on a bike, even in good conditions, let alone in the dark, in the rain, on streets with poor lighting. I know when I learned to drive I was shocked when I realised that when I was on my bike I was surprisingly hard to spot - and this was many years ago, before reflective clothing was available - there really is no excuse these days, clothing, flashing lights, reflective strips etc are cheap as chips and easy to fit.

Do you have more eyes than the rest of us? A second head perhaps?

I'm sure some people post this kind of illogical, sanctimonious nonsense just to be contrary. I refuse to believe that any reasonable adult actually thinks this way.

I am a pedestrian also and yes I think this should be a requirement - particularly in unlit roads.

You cannot miss what you cannot see.

Surely there’s just no argument to favour the pedestrian here? Of course, us drivers have to be aware of our surroundings and hazards etc etc etc, but not when it’s not an actual crossing and a person dashes diagonally across our blind spots. I’m so sick of driving in a mire of people zigzagging across the road, either jogging along and then randomly dashing in front, cyclists zipping across me causing me to break, pedestrians walking while looking on their phones like it’s my job to be accommodating to their whims but not their job to keep themselves safe. It’s so irritating and stressful for drivers, and some pedestrians and cyclists seem to be in the same mindsets of the people who do things like watch YouTube with no headphones on in the doctors waiting room - it’s their world and everyone else needs to just work around them.