To think something has gone wrong in schools? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0m2x30p4eo

[RebelBabybel]

From the BBC : school exclusions have doubled in the last 10 years.

I’ve worked in schools for 30 years : KS1/Early Years.

When I first started I was expected to do : hand written, detailed plans. Assessments. Handwritten reports. I had no TA. I had a blackboard. Children had books. I had to be firm with behaviour, schools had very clear behaviour policies in place, and the head would have an overview, was visible, check classes, be the ‘go to’ person if anything was difficult to manage.

Over the years, particularly in the Early Years things have changed massively.
My latest role has involved a manager who is mostly on the computer and rarely interacts with the children. No planning, no assessment. Resources are put out, but there is an ethos that it’s ‘wrong’ to show the children how to use them. Therefore children don’t use jigsaws as puzzles, they take the pieces out and transport them round the classroom. A doctors role play is set up, but with no input as to what the resources are there are for or how to role play ‘being a doctor’.

There is an expectation, a ‘box’ of what constitutes ‘normal’ behaviour : even with very young children. Any child who is outside this box, is often labelled ‘I think they’ve got autism, I think they’ve got ADHD’ without a formal assessment. These children - rather than getting to know them, or putting clear strategies in place, are quickly labelled as difficult : and fall into a stereotype that causes a negative cycle. There seems to be little ‘fault’ addressed to the teaching style, and the ‘fault??’ is centred on the child, I’d also argue that it is NOT a fault. It’s called being a child.

Children seem to be very readily excluded from schools without the adults fully questioning their teaching style and whether that might be at fault.

To be completely honest, teaching was far easier 30 years ago. Children were better behaved, and there was far better, stronger support from senior management. It felt more like a team, rather than:

an SLT who are in meetings, on a computer, off to conferences, in the staff room, pushing ‘new’ initiatives and criticising their staff.

Totally agree with this. I sometimes think it’d be great for anyone who hasn’t done it to come and observe my classroom for a day - 30 children, most with a need of some kind ranging from EAL to non verbal autism, and 1-2 adults trying to manage behaviour and actually teach something!
I’ve reset my mindset recently and realised that it would be ridiculous to think it was actually possible to meet everyone’s needs in this scenario, so I’m not failing just doing the best I can given the circumstances which are out of my control.

I tend to agree wirh this too and particularly the rise of screen use over the last 10 years. Children coming to school speaking in American accents because of all the YouTube they’re watching who are plonked in front of a device as soon as they get home because it’s easier 😢

Yeah something is wrong. The feckless parents, raising feral kids.

Toddlers sat in pushchairs on phones whilst parents look at phones. Very little interaction. Older children on Tic toc. Social media is killing communication and watching parents role model behaviour.

But so many parents must be exhausted. It's not just "feckless". When I was small you could have a parent without a degree working and bring in enough money to support a small family and another parent work a few hours if you wanted to. Now so many parents are both working full on jobs and kids are in nursery or childcare or after school care most of the day and by the time they come home the parents are exhausted. Especially if it's 2 outside the home physical jobs without flexibility. Also when parents are struggling col, depression, unsuitable housing, unsupported kids with additional needs etc then it is hard to be all the things you'd like to be to your kid. It's about surviving.

Its quite different to the work from home flexible jobs you read about on mn.

Agree.

And everyone is afraid now or dont know what is the right way of punishing children for bad behaviour because parents are told 'do this and you'll traumatise your child'

Sorry but this is rubbish.
In the 25 years I have been in the classroom the range of ability and SEN has increased dramatically. Add in EAL students, those with mental health difficulties and it’s a recipe for disaster. It is not fair on anyone.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having different types of schools. We already have SEN schools but just not enough of them. When I started teaching I too had a blackboard and no TA. I also only had 25 children on average in a class. One of my classes this year has 8 different languages spoken. There are 32 in every class. All children deserve the best education possibly. Putting them all together in a huge building isn’t the answer. Education needs a radical overhaul with lots of different types of schools.

It is well known that some ND children mask at school and then behaviour explodes at home. Not necessarily parenting. Please don't blame parents by default if you don't really have an understanding of ND.

My son used to be fine and now does the same. He literally walks through the door and lets everything out that has built up in the day. He has complex needs, but this happens with higher functioning children too. He is fine after a while, but it wasn't happening before and now has started to happen daily. We haven't changed the way we parent...

I don’t know, my parents worked very long hours 6 days a week. We were often home alone at a very early age (think 6ish). We still got good feedback on behaviour and were always on the working in greater depth tables. The expectations start young. A lot of school is being able to sit down, pay attention and not be disruptive. Thats enough to learn something. My own is an extremely active child who struggles to be sitting down too long but she manages fine as long as she can have a run around a few times.

Expectations about behaviour are set way before they get to primary imo. Obviously I’m not talking about children with SEN.

I do think we need more SEN provision schools, not wothin mainstream. It’s not fair on the kids who need a different approach to have them in mainstream and it’s not fair on mainstream to have class time taken up with meeting significant additional needs.

I think we should have high standards in school, we should accept not everyone should be going to uni and strengthen trades qualifications and apprenticeships. It doesn’t do anyone any favours to make school easier or less demanding to accommodate instead of understanding that different children have different paths and pushing ahead to make sure able children get where they should be going. We need both, we need the carpenters and we need the hospital consultants. We should bring back gifted and talented programmes as well.

I agree with this.

My friends son is 11, he is autistic with ADHD and learning difficulties. He can't really read, can't write anything other than his own name, can't do written down maths at all. Despite years and years of targeted interventions, and her doing everything she can to help him, it just isn't something he's ever going to master. He is however excellent with his hands and can use loads of tools very skilfully already. He can also do pretty good mental arithmetic in a woodwork context. She wants him to study a trade, but there's no pathway for that for him. He has to stay in school and study for GCSEs which he will never pass, and already he is becoming disengaged from education and starting to play up to get out of lessons he can't understand. But he's "too able" for special school placements according to our LA. It's very sad to watch.

I’m sorry if this is controversial but I would suggest that you move schools as not all schools are like this!
I am a headteacher and myself and the DH are almost always in classes supporting behaviour. In my previous school it was the same (wasn’t the Head then - just SLT). We just got outstanding ofsted for EYFS and we have children displaying the behaviours mentioned but we put good routines in place to support them, work with parents and seek outside support. I’m not saying it’s easy by any stretch (still have bruises from 2 weeks ago from 1 child biting me) and I completely agree with lots of the posts about parents needing to take accountability for their children’s behaviour and the curriculum being too full to allow teachers to work with children on their behaviour. I’m just suggesting that maybe your school / SLT could be dealing with things in a more positive way.

This struck me as a very good example of the disconnect between teachers, children and parents that’s going on.

It’s very well know that neurodivergent children often mask in school. Call it the coke bottle effect, the stress bucket, whatever, but I’m appalled afresh that so many teachers have never heard of it.

This is something that will affect the child and their family of many of your pupils. The fact that teachers still use this as a stick to beat parents with is shocking.

It’s so easy for teachers to call out parents in this way (haven’t read the thread beyond this post, but I’m willing to bet my arm that this will feature heavily), but it’s so lazy, and just shows that they’re so up their own egos that they cannot accept that the way schools have changed that sees so many teachers despairing and wanting to leave, is the exact same reason that has children not coping as well.

So short sighted.

@Superhansrantowindsor

My youngest child has an EHCP. When I sought a reception place, the school tried to say they couldn’t meet his needs before DC had even set foot in the door.
After a battle with the school, DC is doing really well.

And very importantly, DC is in his local area, not having to cope with transport to a school far away - and has made friends in his local area.
I really feel I have had to fight against a rigid mindset. I’ve also had to battle against assumptions before DC was diagnosed (with a speech delay and not ASD as presumed by school).
I’ve also had to battle against egos and SLT who are more determined to prove ‘I was right all along’ rather than admit fault.
At the heart of all this is the child.

That is what seems to have been forgotten over egos, initiatives and pigeon holing children.

I think this is a key point.

There is a huge disconnect between primary and secondary.

Wobbly cushions for ADHD kids in primary, detention for loosening your (ridiculous, unnecessary and uncomfortable) tie in secondary. Freedom to choose what they want to work with (like OP said don't plan, make stuff available and let them get on with it), don't deviate one inch from the exact vocab you are expected to use in French in secondary.

This is creating neurotic teens. Add to that societal issues and political point scoring with the curriculum, and we have... this.

Plus a raise in SEN. A lot of these kids' difficulties would be easily overcome if school wasn't such a hostile environment to begin with.

@user1469207397

I just want to highlight this post because this is EXACTLY what happens and it’s shocking.
One activity I remember : a staff member had bought lots of (quite expensive) canvasses to create a special poppy painting to take home. Another vocal staff member who has just been on a course about creativity decided no resources should be put out at all, the children should get what they need out the cupboard. There was no input about what a poppy is, colour, shape, its meaning etc. I spent the whole time cleaning up mess, while the children created some brown splat pictures. Every time I attempted to ‘teach’ vocal staff member told me I was stopping their creativity. Except when she went on a tea break - and I showed one child a picture of a poppy and discussed colour, shape etc.
The result? Vocal staff member said - we can’t send these home and binned them. Except one. Guess which one.

Now I would ALSO expect this vocal class member to blame the situation on the children having needs or being unteachable. Definitely not down to her lack of input.

user1469207397 · Yesterday 18:57
The reason I left my role of Reception Class TA after 20 years.
So many activities put out for the children with no guidance as to how to use them.
We had a dozen story sacks with all the components to act out the story. Two children went to empty them all out in a big pile on the floor. The teacher encouraged such "creative play".you can guess whose job it was to sort that mess out and find the missing pieces!
Art- I would take a small group, we would talk about what effect we hoped to achieve, the technique used, discuss colours, textures etc. but now the
art supplies are left on the table. Top set girls (not being stereotypical but purely my experience) would use them sensibly but most would rush past, put a couple of spoldges of paint on the paper and leave it at that. Such a waste of resources and the opportunity to teach new skills.
I sadly left as I felt that my only contribution to the class was clearing up mess rather than help children to learn.

All of those points barring the last are down to parenting.

The last isn’t new - there have always been global factors that make life difficult.

I thought this to a lesser extend over a decade ago - my kids are now near end of education. Its more educational ethos than a teacher problem though.

My eldest is a carbon copy SEN wise to me - I coped much better.

Overly busy visual classroom - stuff hanging from ceilings and constant change- lot of noise- lots of fun activities that confused my kid with short term memory issues as they still had explanations then but by time fun activity was set up they'd lost it all, large classes - very hard to get into support groups as so many worse. So much emphasis on things being "fun".

We spent year paying for on-line service to each maths which did it was we were taught - explanation, worked example then 20 questions 20 minutes a day. They went from possible dyscalculia to doing A-levels maths.

Spelling not taught but not consistently corrected either- relying on spelling tests which don't get words into every day writing - letter formation not corrected - all that had to happen at home. It wasn't fun for us at home but massively helped their confidence when they started to struggle less.

It took getting DD1 to 19 before education system finally tested her we couldn't afford private prices- and she has dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADHD. So much time wasted and energy wasted with teachers flip flopping if there were issues

Also less slack in the system if they fell behind they couldn't catch up as I did - they needed outside school support. DSis is single parent kids are in childcare after school and in holidays ex won't do any homework - there less time and energy so when they fall behind they stayed behind.

We also in their first school felt like we were drowning in busy work - home work that had to be done but was rarely looked at and seem poorly thought though.

When we changed schools we went to small classes,much less busy with displays, no busy work as parents couldn't be relied on - and suddenly we had time at home to do other stuff.

When I was at secondary creative subjects like art and drama were painful we were taught nothing - no techniques no history - either you were naturally good or you just lost interested and got berated for not being creative. DH different school got proper lessons and took it at GCSE. My kids have much better experiences and within the parameter's are creative and have taken the subjects further. I sounds like that thinking is now in your KS1 - so moving school may make this less an issue.

So yes there's a lot of societal issues playing into schools - but I agree there are issues.

I honestly think social media and online life in general is fucking ALL of us up.

Humans still have the same brains we had 2 millennia ago, our brains are made for in-person socialisation, in-person conversation, in-person conflict resolution, in-person learning, in-person behavioural norms-setting and crucially, PHYSICAL EXERCISE.

Social media denigrates and destroys all of the above.

As a result, our minds are crumbling and we are losing our in-person communication abilities. Anyone born before say 1995 is gonna basically be OK because we grew up in the way humans are meant to grow up - physically around other people. Anyone born after 1995 is, or will grow up to be, different, and society is gonna have to change itself to accommodate.

@EdgyDreamer

Lots of great points in your post.

With the poppy activity I was part of in reception : the whole thing was confused.

Lots of different adults were inputting, but a vocal adult was taking over.

The original idea of poppies, a canvas to go home WOULD require adult input and teaching in my eyes. If you state poppy, you need to have knowledge of what a poppy is. I don’t think a 4 year old would automatically know.

If the objective behind the task was : the children select their own paint and express their ideas (without the initial constrict of (poppy/expensive canvas/item to go home to parents) - I’d fully support the learning.

The vocal adult STILL expected a poppy, and blamed the children’s lack of painting skills. If I’d challenged this I would have created tension, no support from SLT and staff room criticism. Plus the ethos on EYFS IS to be creative, which I fully understand - but I also think there is a need to teach, depending on the task.

What you’ve described to me sounds like the box mentality. Teachers, SENCOS, the curriculum etc have that ‘typical’ box and those not in that box need to be labelled.

Children aren't unteachable, the discipline ethos has changed because we've learned how much shouting/smacking...etc traumatises young children.

Now before everyone jumps on me, i'm not advocating for bringing them back, but we're in a transition period where parents like myself were bought up with smacking, who have gone the opposite way, and got too permissive and afraid to so much as shout 'no' at our kids for fear of being accused of abuse. I fell into that hole for a while before i realised my kids were becoming feral, so i picked my game up and got firmer/stricter.

There needs to be a middle ground.

As yet, parenting as a whole ethos hasn't found a happy medium in how to teach kids discipline while not falling back on the old ways, and it does mean you've got kids who have mental health issues because they STILL NEED boundaries, but parents aren't providing them. It feels like quite often school is the first place to try and instil them.

Just me, but as a TA i rarely had issues with kids behaving for me because i was always quite firm, same as with my own kids, but fair, and i explain the why of stuff in an age appropriate manner, while still giving them space to explore where its ok to do so.

Some of the stupid ideas the education department come up with don't help.. like participation trophies and not giving kids the opportunity to learn that not everyone can win at something....

Agree @WinterBones

I HAD to have boundaries 30 years ago because I had no TA. The whole school did. And I didn’t have anyone questioning this because the whole school had the ethos of clear rules and consequences. The children felt safe with them in place. Everyone knew the ‘score’.

this is what i was talking about, there should be a mix of guided, purposeful play for learning, and times when freedom to explore and imagine is encouraged.

Neither need to be a chaotic free for all, there are ways of doing both.. generally by setting ground rules on behaviour expectations around the play equipment/art supplies.

The poppy one, for instance, there should have been an example, and pictures on the tables of different art images of poppies for 'inspiration' with different tables with different supplies on, like collage stuff on one, paint on another...etc

the children should get what they need out the cupboard.

But how do they know what they need if they haven't been introduced to colour, shape, etc?

Sounds boring for everyone, tbh.

Apparently a third of children are now living in relative poverty. Regardless of the definition, that means a significant hardship or struggle in daily life. Bad accommodation (e.g. moving around B&B rooms), lack of food or clothes, stressed ill or busy parents (at best, at worst:total chaos at home), less access to friends, play, fun and activities. It won't be evenly spread, some schools it will be more than half the school. There has got to be a link to behaviour and exclusions. Kids are coming to school tired, cold, hungry and demotivated.

The government needs to fix housing, fix employment, fix opportunity - these are foundations for a stable childhood. And remove the 2 child cap immediately.