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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think something has gone wrong in schools? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz0m2x30p4eo

364 replies

RebelBabybel · 21/11/2024 17:34

From the BBC : school exclusions have doubled in the last 10 years.

I’ve worked in schools for 30 years : KS1/Early Years.

When I first started I was expected to do : hand written, detailed plans. Assessments. Handwritten reports. I had no TA. I had a blackboard. Children had books. I had to be firm with behaviour, schools had very clear behaviour policies in place, and the head would have an overview, was visible, check classes, be the ‘go to’ person if anything was difficult to manage.

Over the years, particularly in the Early Years things have changed massively.
My latest role has involved a manager who is mostly on the computer and rarely interacts with the children. No planning, no assessment. Resources are put out, but there is an ethos that it’s ‘wrong’ to show the children how to use them. Therefore children don’t use jigsaws as puzzles, they take the pieces out and transport them round the classroom. A doctors role play is set up, but with no input as to what the resources are there are for or how to role play ‘being a doctor’.

There is an expectation, a ‘box’ of what constitutes ‘normal’ behaviour : even with very young children. Any child who is outside this box, is often labelled ‘I think they’ve got autism, I think they’ve got ADHD’ without a formal assessment. These children - rather than getting to know them, or putting clear strategies in place, are quickly labelled as difficult : and fall into a stereotype that causes a negative cycle. There seems to be little ‘fault’ addressed to the teaching style, and the ‘fault??’ is centred on the child, I’d also argue that it is NOT a fault. It’s called being a child.

Children seem to be very readily excluded from schools without the adults fully questioning their teaching style and whether that might be at fault.

To be completely honest, teaching was far easier 30 years ago. Children were better behaved, and there was far better, stronger support from senior management. It felt more like a team, rather than:

an SLT who are in meetings, on a computer, off to conferences, in the staff room, pushing ‘new’ initiatives and criticising their staff.

OP posts:
LemonadeCrayon · 23/11/2024 19:42

RebelBabybel · 23/11/2024 10:43

@LemonadeCrayon

Agree, and I quite often see that Animal Farm mentality at the top. They ‘avoid’ the difficult situations, the discipline, the cohesiveness, the actual teaching - while swiftly avoiding any elephants in the room. If a teacher was out, the head used to cover the class. Now heads get their TA’s to do it. Their focus seems to be on new initiatives, meetings, computer based activities and discussions in their SLT huddle.

I was totally shocked by the negative cloud that hit my DC with a EHCP before he’d even started reception. Not from preschool, but from mainstream schooling.

And you are completely right about LA’s breaking the law and saving money. It causes a situation where the persistent parents win, and those who don’t fight lose.

I agree with this too and highlighted this in a formal complaint to the Local Authority. My child has someone to fight for her (me). And much as the LA has made our lives absolute hell, I won't stop doing that so she will get what she needs eventually.

It has cost me a 5 figure sum of money so far. It has meant I had to homeschool her during the day and do my full time job at night and survive on 3 hours of sleep per day for months on end while they made it impossible for her to attend (not excluded or due to any bad behaviour, rather because they refused to meet her needs as agreed and this made her suicidal at the age of 5 so I had to keep her at home to safeguard her). They threatened to prosecute me for not sending her back and are continuing to obstruct her EHCP. They've done immense damage to her that will take years to repair if we can at all.

However, I will not be bullied out of protecting her and am doing what I can to repair the damage. And she is fortunate to have a parent who can also afford the large costs involved in fighting ensuring her basic legal right to access education is met. Many children do not have someone who can or will do this on their behalf and one of the most disgusting things about this behaviour from LAs is that those children who do not even have security at home will be the ones who have no way to access school properly either. And that this is a deliberate design feature of the LA's approach: they are well aware that this is the case, but continue to behave in this manner anyway.

I raised this issue specifically in my complaint. What happens to the children with nobody to speak up on their behalf?

Once upon a time I was such a child myself and this makes me unspeakably angry. I do not know how these people sleep at night.

BlueSilverCats · 23/11/2024 19:54

ThrallsWife · 23/11/2024 19:37

Two of the most inspirational films I watched about teaching were Sister Act 2 and School of Rock.

And yet Delores would have been out on her arse over student safety, and seemed to have no curriculum to teach. There was base respect there from the kids (and every kid in that class seemed to be able to sing). Try the nails on blackboard or the no-shit-taking attitude with kids nowadays and see whether they really do fall quiet.

And Jack Black's kids would have failed their state-mandated tests, he would have failed every book look, every observation, and it's completely unrealistic that none of the kids in the classroom rebelled and/ or blabbed about their secret project.

They are great films that show how talented kids are, how teachers can inspire passion if left to their own devices, but the reality is that it never happens in UK schools because everything is micromanaged.

I love Freedom writers for various reasons. The books are so inspiring and raw as well. Absolutely brilliant.

Tiredalwaystired · 23/11/2024 20:23

Dead Poets Society was even more inspiring.

Neighboursfromhell · 23/11/2024 20:44

I actually work for my local IAS service. We see children suspended because of having brown soles on their black shoes.

The bit that really really scares me isn't the suspensions and exclusions. It is the use of unregulated and often secretive internal isolation. The practices there are absolutely diabolical. I had one child in July who hadn't been allowed to step foot out of isolation since February 2nd. This is the scandal waiting to happen.

noblegiraffe · 23/11/2024 21:34

Tiredalwaystired · 23/11/2024 20:23

Dead Poets Society was even more inspiring.

Meh, it's one thing to get one class standing on a desk saying 'Captain, my Captain' as disappear out the door, it's another entirely to keep showing up for them day after day, year after year.

NotMeNoNo · 23/11/2024 22:29

Neighboursfromhell · 23/11/2024 20:44

I actually work for my local IAS service. We see children suspended because of having brown soles on their black shoes.

The bit that really really scares me isn't the suspensions and exclusions. It is the use of unregulated and often secretive internal isolation. The practices there are absolutely diabolical. I had one child in July who hadn't been allowed to step foot out of isolation since February 2nd. This is the scandal waiting to happen.

I'm glad you posted this. My son was 2 terms in unofficial internal isolation at a "zero tolerance" school (to avoid an official exclusion) before we gave up and moved to a different school where he thrived. The effect on his mental health and our family are still with us 8 years later. I'm still furious at the ignorance and lying of the SLT.

NotMeNoNo · 23/11/2024 22:31

I always say to people looking at schools (especially for SEN/ND kids) ask to look at both the isolation room and the SEN support room . Which one is bigger and better equipped will tell you their focus.

enpeatea · 23/11/2024 22:33

Too much trying to make square pegs fit in round holes.
Worked in a special school, smacked me in the face how many were summer birthdays.

Reugny · 23/11/2024 22:41

LittleBearPad · 22/11/2024 23:32

So which of these do you think parents can’t influence/control?

  • Being neglected at home, but not removed because there were literally no foster carers / moved into care 500 miles away because it was the only foster placement available
  • Watching violent porn at age 11
  • Stuck in their bedrooms all evening and weekends on devices because there are no heap or free youth activity or social clubs, or no transport to get them there.
  • Contactable 24/7 through social media / smartphones, and riddled with anxiety.
  • Living in poverty but watching influencers living heavenly-looking lives, daring to dream it might be possible for them before reality hits.
  • Brought up in a home where adults interacted with their personal screens more than their children.

Parents can't control their kid getting access to porn unless their kid has no friends/ peers they interact with.

Unfortunately while you may be vigilant and knowledgeable enough to ensure your kid doesn't use their own/household device(s) to look at pornographic content especially violent content, you can't ensure their friends/peers have similar parents or even relatives.

Also while parents think taking their kids phone away from them so they don't have 24/7 access to SM and other harmful content is enough it really isn't.

Most parents aren't knowledgeable enough to stop their kid doing stuff on the internet if their kid really wants to do it. Otherwise there wouldn't be stories of teenage cyber criminals

I've been told some interesting stories of what 8/9 year olds have got up to and they weren't hiding away in their bedroom at that age. The problems have always escalated as their parents think they have been behaving appropriately online for a year or more, and so when the kid has got older they have been given their own devices. This is where the bigger problem of grooming - whether it is in a sexual, religious/political or criminal context - has appeared.

In regards to youth clubs and foster care that's down to money. The interesting thing is that everyone mentions youth clubs but very few people used them as teens. What people did have was more services that were free/ heavily subsidized they used, or (in my case) just simply more space and less restrictions on where you could hang out.

BraOffPjsOn · 23/11/2024 22:57

I agree with some of your sentiments OP however I don’t think the ones being excluded are the ones who just need some support and adaptations.
I’m a teacher too and we have some children who are attacking pupils and staff, harming themselves and are unsafe. They are dysregulated and their mental health is affected by the distress.
Even these children who are not coping are not excluded until every possible option has been tried.
I think it’s wrong to make people think exclusion is quick, easy and schools do it willy nilly.
And if you haven’t experienced what I’ve mentioned above then you’re very, very lucky.

RaraRachael · 23/11/2024 23:43

We had very aggressive child who seemed to pick on a particular group of girls. Nothing was done about it - HT had done everything within her power, LA wouldn't support exclusion.
Only when a parent threatened to go to the police and the press was the issue dealt with satisfactorily.

It shouldn't have to come to this.

Tiredalwaystired · 24/11/2024 09:35

noblegiraffe · 23/11/2024 21:34

Meh, it's one thing to get one class standing on a desk saying 'Captain, my Captain' as disappear out the door, it's another entirely to keep showing up for them day after day, year after year.

I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said it was a more inspiring teacher film than School of Rock.

Tiredalwaystired · 24/11/2024 09:37

Reugny · 23/11/2024 22:41

Parents can't control their kid getting access to porn unless their kid has no friends/ peers they interact with.

Unfortunately while you may be vigilant and knowledgeable enough to ensure your kid doesn't use their own/household device(s) to look at pornographic content especially violent content, you can't ensure their friends/peers have similar parents or even relatives.

Also while parents think taking their kids phone away from them so they don't have 24/7 access to SM and other harmful content is enough it really isn't.

Most parents aren't knowledgeable enough to stop their kid doing stuff on the internet if their kid really wants to do it. Otherwise there wouldn't be stories of teenage cyber criminals

I've been told some interesting stories of what 8/9 year olds have got up to and they weren't hiding away in their bedroom at that age. The problems have always escalated as their parents think they have been behaving appropriately online for a year or more, and so when the kid has got older they have been given their own devices. This is where the bigger problem of grooming - whether it is in a sexual, religious/political or criminal context - has appeared.

In regards to youth clubs and foster care that's down to money. The interesting thing is that everyone mentions youth clubs but very few people used them as teens. What people did have was more services that were free/ heavily subsidized they used, or (in my case) just simply more space and less restrictions on where you could hang out.

We had a waiting list for the youth club I went to in the 80s, so that’s not a universally true comment.

Cornishclio · 25/11/2024 19:32

I think they are probably under funded. Teachers are demoralised and stressed. The curriculum is too rigid both for teachers and some children. Schools are too big and noisy for some kids with ASD. SEN kids struggle with the rigidity and teachers don't have enough resources to cope with them. Parents either can't or won't support teachers and unsettled home life (financial or housing difficulties, mental health problems or drink/drug/domestic violence) means children don't feel safe and supported.

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