How awful that much-loved 30-year-old son cut all contact

[soupsetpleasehelp]

I'm actually writing as I have a very, dear old friend whose DS has completely cut her off. He is in his early 30s and he grew up between his parents (in a different country so no risk that this is outing) after his dad left the mum, shared contact which is common over there. The dad has since then had numerous relationships, and was horrible towards my friend in the early days, and wouldn't provide enough economic support etc. All the main care really came from my friend.

Anyhow, she was always extremely close to her son and was (is) the most warm, loving mum (person) you could imagine. Her son was always her first priority (but I wouldn't say he was spoilt) and we, her friends, always used to meet up with him and he was super cuddly and loving with his mum. No wonder, she was always very encouraging. However, over the last few years he's gone into modelling and has had a few girlfriends, the most recent one who is from a wealthy family.

My friend's son has slowly cut contact from last Xmas until a hard cut off earlier this year. He kept bringing up old (what I would have considered normal experiences) from when he was a child, when he felt she didn't meet his needs with regards to taking him e.g. to the doctors immediately after a fall (she did the next day when he complained of more pain, he initially said it was OK) and he had a fracture. Well, I'm sure lots of parents would have been the same. She is the most far from neglectful you could imagine, a wonderful person.

My friend has taken onboard that perhaps she and her parents at times talked about her ex husband (the father) in not too rosy a terms but I don't think it was a bad case of it at all, just a few occasions (tbh we all knew how awful the father was to my friend).

I wonder at times whether he due to mental health issues is gaslighting his mum, and now that he is in the modelling world and with rich girlfriend and parents, he somehow is embarrassed about his mum (who is very overweight and lives in a small flat) and that this has created some sort of dissonance which have led him to almost create false memories of how awful she was when he was growing up.

I hate seeing my friend upset and I would like to offer to write a letter to the son (and perhaps to his girlfriend and her parents as they only have his word) as I know both my friend and remember seeing her son grow up from 0-5, then seeing them regularly almost every year until he was in his late teens/early 20s. She honestly is a natural with kids and the kindest friend.

I would like to hear from all of you out there that have been affected by this either as the person being cut off, or the person dropping contact. What would be the best way to approach this letter?

I was as clear as I could be that any form of child abuse is a great reason to cut contact.

Some people just will not accept what is and isn't abuse, they think that they get to decide this and whether going NC is justified or not for other people.
The people who do that are probably the same ones who can't understand WHY somebody would cut them off and keep bleating on about how they have done nothing wrong to anyone who will listen

Well. That thread went far off-piste ...

And the OP hasn't returned. She mentioned, pages back now, that she does not intend to write the letter. She sees the sense in this, even if other contributors to the thread don't.

No one is the aribter of other people's boundaries. Adults are at liberty to set their own: they are the ones to judge what circumstances 'justify' breaking off contact or not. It doesn't really matter who is or isn't in the wrong, and exactly the same variables apply to marriage/romantic relationships. If one party decides it's over - for whatever reason - then it's over. No justification, particularly not to complete strangers or often-wellmeaning but extremely misguided flying monkeys, is necessary.

It matters nothing whether any Tom, Dick or Harriet on the www agrees. This man has made his decision therefore the point is moot. OP is wise to have decided not to interfere further. It can't end any way other than badly.

You've only got her side - you can't get involved. I would definitely suggest he is ashamed, to an extent, though.

Then they'll waste a lot of energy in thinking wrongly. We can all decide our own personal boundaries. We don't get to do this for others. In certain circumstances this is coercive, and certainly falls into the territory of control-freakery. And these, alone, can in some situations be abusive.

Self-preservation and strong boundaries are the least every individual is entitled to have. And it's hardly a worthwhile investment to be concerned where those boundaries lie in lives which are not ours, and situations which don't personally affect us.

Actually many estranged people never shut up about it. Have you ever gone over to gransmet? There is an army of enraged, estranged, grannies over there and they never shut up about it.

I think the problem you are having is that you are fundamentally a very judgmental person and you are projecting it onto everyone else. Its not any if your business, or mine, to judge other people’s choices in who they are intimate with. Children are not pets, they are not owned, and they don’t owe any family member companionship.

But whether you agree or not isn’t relevant because its none of your business. You aren’t the sainted hero of this drama. You are just a judgmental busybody with an argumentative streak.

Do not get involved. You have absolutely no idea what their relationship was really like. I'm sure your friend is nice but you can't possibly really KNOW if she was a wonderful mother and even if she is, receiving an interfering letter can only make the situation worse between them

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What’s unacceptable is the suggestion that abuse is the only “justification” for cutting contact. You might not like or agree with the other reasons, but people are still entitled to their reasons - and above all, their choice.

Agree, people are also entitled not to justify their reasons as well.
I went NC with my Dad, my reasons are my own and I don't owe anyone an explanation.
I didn't visit him when he was dying, I didn't go his funeral and I don't regret it.

Perhaps we should all go NC with some on this thread. Smart thing to do.

Yes but don't forget to list your reasons with clear evidence 🙄

I used to hug my mother because it was part of my role as her emotional support from a very young age - along with fetching her drinks, taking time off school to listen to her self-pitying rants, and being forced to agree with her slagging off my father - god forbid I should be allowed to like him.

Those hugs and emotional support were from me to her, never the other way around. And yes, I too would 'almost beg for love', because I was made to believe I was basically unlikeable and flawed. This was supposed to keep me dependent. It took a lot of strength to escape. But I've seen what she's done to my siblings who stayed, and thank god I did.

Perhaps recent generations have learned from previous generations, and are less likely to tolerate the kind of toxicity that would lead to intergenerational trauma.

Op your posts are setting off all kinds of alarm bells. I'm glad you've decided not to send the letters (because... really!)

Please just back the hell up from the son. Leave him be. If he wants to contact his mom, he will... but guilt tripping, controlling, contacting his girlfriends family... none of these things will bring him back.

All you can do is be a supportive ear to your friend and please pass on some of the things you have learned from this thread.

I haven't, my father was a dreadful human being. After my mother died (they'd been divorced for about 6 years at this point), what he said and did then, meant that I went NC.

I have never regretted that decision.

I rarely get triggered on MN but this thread really did a number on me last night. Thankfully the main perpetrator has flounced but my God it was like banging your head off a wall. Hope all who were affected are ok. Strange how you get get to be an adult and a parent but conversations like these can knock the wind out of you. I HATE invalidation for people who have suffered. It's nasty, it's judgmental and it can be incredibly damaging.

I really don’t understand the insistence on romanticizing the past. People ghosted family members back then too:husbands abandoned wives and families. Children emigrated and avoided contact. Siblings were resentful or estranged from one another. People today aren’t really different than they were in the past. Read any fairytale or just any memoir.

What has changed is that post industrialization and the rise of non farm employment and extensive public education and the welfare state people are more able to navigate life without depending on family members for housing or finance. So people are finally more able to vote with their feet snd less forced to put up with cruelty or emotional abuse or indifference.

Before people had to dance attendance on even the cruelest parent and grandparent. Now they don’t. That is to be celebrated.

I love my children and they love me. But if they didn’t and wanted to cut me off I would be sad but not resentful. People have their reasons fof what they do. Their autonomy is…well..theirs. Their choices are their own. They don’t owe me—I gave what I gave freely.

Where is the point in arguing whether cutting off contact with a relative is 'justified'? It's not as if there were an independent tribunal to which the cut-off person could apply for reinstatement of the status quo ante.

I love my children and they love me. But if they didn’t and wanted to cut me off I would be sad but not resentful. People have their reasons fof what they do.

Exactly so. I am NC with my own parents. So many people ask me "but how would you feel if your own children went NC with you?". My answer is that I hope we have a good enough relationship that they don't, and that if they are not happy that they could talk to me and we could try to fix things, but if at the end of the day, they wanted to go their own way that would be up to them and I would wish them well. I don't measure my self worth via my children (as my parents do). Nor do I expect them to obligated to look after me (whether that's actual looking after, or just making duty visits).

Not only that, but i have read Guns, Germs and Steel and it has absolutely nothing to do with interpersonal relationships but instead is an analysis on how the population of western Europe we're best placed to conquer much of the globe thanks partially due to geography, biology and science.

Because western Europe was so close to what is known as "The fertile crescent" it gave white Europeans the ability to proliferate, and develop advanced weaponry (relative to the neighbors at least) and the "Germs" part, is all about how the civilizations in south America fell to the conquistadors because they had no immune system against the foreign germs they brought with them.

Not really sure why the poster decided to mention this book as beyond a slight connection that "humans are generally bad, booo!" it has nothing to do with this thread at all.

Not all estrangements are the dumpee's fault. Many are. Why is this view so hard to understand?

The fact remains that not all estrangements are equal. Some are due to the character flaws and selfishness of the dumpers, who create enormous and undeserved pain in people reaching the end of their life, for no good reason. I think that's wicked.

As I've stated repeatedly, I don't include people who had horrible childhoods in that. But imo, differences in politics and religion and parents generally being irritating and of a different generation, with different values, aren't reasons to completely cut ties.

Just fyi, I think parents who won't accept someone's sexual orientation or gender identity deserve to be cut off. Who cares who they love or how they dress? They're still your child.

You will get differences of opinion on online discussion forums. That's kinda the point. I'm not going to say that I think all people who initiate an estrangement are automatically in the right to do so, because I don't believe that's true in all cases.

Sorry, it was late. The book I'm thinking of was the same author, only it was his title THE THIRD CHIMPANZEE, not GUNS.

The point is that unless there's good reason for it, people are creating a tremendous amount of heartache, and without a good reason, I think that's horrible and wrong.

@NoisyDenimShaker I thought you were leaving this thread? Yet here you are, two hours later, ignorantly waffling on again...

My stepdad ALWAYS used this as an excuse when my mum had been an absolute Bellend to me.

"Oh, she's been having a rough time with her Chemo, blah blah blah"

No, she's like it all the time, stop using it as an excuse.