Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

Thirty years ago as a 'senior' member of staff (21 years old), I was responsible for teaching school leavers in their first job how to speak on the telephone, write letters and perform basic calculations - things like percentages, fractions, that sort of thing. Not one of them had a GCSE over a grade E, but they learned quickly and would eventually use that knowledge in future jobs as well. I was paid roughly double their salary specifically because I was teaching core skills, not just 'press this button'.

I now have to deal with people with degrees and salaries nearer three times mine whom need to be taught exactly the same things that those school leavers picked up in three months. Except they don't want to do it and refuse because 'It's too hard, I can't possibly understand technical things, you're so much better at it than me so do my job as well as your own or I'll go crying to the boss that you're being mean to me'.

It's embarrassing, frankly.

Perhaps all these workplaces finding young recruits so lacking compared to previous generations could actively take on over 50s, who apparently cannot get a look in no matter how many jobs they apply for.
We will not get our pensions till 67 or 68, so we are still quite motivated.

Missing the point of the thread (or maybe not).

Alas, that would require existing workplaces to notice their own failings, rather than whinge about the failings of others. 🤣

I actually think this is good point. You might start seeing companies willing to hire older workers who have very difference mindsets and value systems. I’ve already seen videos of employers saying they’ve stopped hiring Gen Z and prefer to look for older staff. Might be good for Millennials and Gen X who will (sadly) have to work many more years before retirement.

Yanbu. I’ve seen this for myself as we’ve taken on quite a few young people (early-mid 20s) at work in the last year or so. I can’t believe their total lack of trying to impress in a new role, turning up on the dot of 9.30 or up to ten minutes late, not showing any keenness to take on new tasks and basically acting like they are the ones doing us a favour by being in the job. These were “high calibre” candidates with good degrees. This industry is a long way from teaching and they have good starting salaries (min 30k with potential to double that or more within a few years).
I’m mid-40s so not ancient in terms of how I remember things being at that age and I certainly never behaved this way at work, or witnessed it from anyone else. They seem incredibly entitled.

Blackbird can you remember which employers these were, or where you saw those videos? I'd be very interested to know.

We have had record low unemployment in the UK for a long time now (and lots of people choosing not to work). I do wonder if this has had a demotivating effect on the younger workforce. They know there are plenty of jobs out there to choose from.

When there’s more pressure to keep your job, people tend to put in more effort and present themselves as keen and willing to work hard. This can help with engagement, greater enjoyment etc. You get out what you put in.

I'm saying this as a childless elder millennial so take it however you want. But I've noticed that parents do way too much for their kids. Everything is organised. Kids gain independence quite late and even that is quite controlled. There is safeguarding in place and all risks are minimised. This will affect critical thinking skills, problem solving skills, social interactions etc. Then we get to people being chronically online. Reading mumsnet I feel like I live in different world let alone taking work advice from here.

That being said. Every generation is looked down by previous and every generation has piss takers and very dedicated workers.

I am not joking, a young guy at my workplace did the exact same thing. I did a double take at your post 😂 Said his vision was too blurry to drive!

I’m not a teacher and have no experience but the impression I’ve got from friends is that the training is very intense and hard work and consumes most of your waking hours? Then apparently you have zero work-life balance in the first year or so qualified.

Or maybe it’s just become so unappealing that there’s not as many high quality candidates and they get away with more?

Do any of you have experience of international trainees of a similar age? We've recently had a couple of trainees join from India - they're about 22/23, and they have amazing work ethic. Punctual, hard working, polite, eager to learn. If this trend continues, the UK could be in serious trouble as the world is getting very competitive...

Surely they have to do the expected work to an acceptable standard, with evidence of competency in multiple areas to pass their placement or is that not part of teacher training any more?

Honestly, I've got a few fresh grads on my team and I feel the same. And I'm only in my early 30s myself. I've complained to my friends that I feel like I'm turning into a crotchety old person complaining about the younguns but jesus - coming in late 3 days in a row because 'if I get the early train I have to leave the house at X time' (okay, but... that's what time you need to leave to get here on time?), no idea how to do basic things on computers (that's not necessarily their fault, but why are we not teaching basic Office programs in school any more?!), seem to need spoonfeeding absolutely everything from 'maybe give them a call instead of hoping a DM to them on Linkedin works for this urgent issue' to 'have you tried googling it' for a very basic, straightforward question that they've spent an hour not-doing-their-job about. It's baffling, they're really childlike. I don't know if it's partly the pandemic, maybe!?

I do see a PPs point about the new generation of workers setting boundaries we wouldn't have dreamed of - I try and bear that in mind when they take the concept of flexible working to its very flexiest and borderline pisstakey limits, I remember being 21 and starting work and feeling absolutely obliged to take everything on so I always make sure they're never over capacity, can always talk to me, etc etc. I admire them for being very clear about setting boundaries over what they're comfortable with and not letting work take over any more time in their week than it should etc - but when that includes declining very important meetings that have been booked for weeks because they have a bit of a headache and they stroll in late because their gym class ran over but refuse to work a minute past 5, it's a bit much. And if we point this out, we get absolutely blank stares haha. It's been a year since we hired this cohort and they're an alright bunch but it's taken a while to....housetrain them, if you will.

Currently working a contract coordinating University aged people and have found similar: tremendous sense of entitlement and the mental health cards or labels (ADHD, spectrum, OCD, anxiety, depression, etc) get thrown around a lot, especially when they haven't done something or don't want to do something. Some are quite canny with it.

I'm 58. We didn't have any of this stuff and we were taught at school to get on with it.

I think the concept of resilience is alien to a lot of them who are quite emotionally self indulgent.

Ah this is definitely a thing with some Mumsnet posters. You read threads regarding teens that you could easily mistake as being about small primary children. Sixteen-year-olds who are organised, micromanaged and helicopter-parented to a ridiculous degree.

The mental health thing is going to be a huge epidemic in a decade. I can't believe people haven't woken up to this. The most lucrative careers and organisations will be in so called 'wellbeing'...

This resonates with me so much. I see all of these behaviours in trainees at my job and it's astounding to me how quickly work ethic and attitudes have changed. I'm talking 10 years or less in age difference and the quality of workers is world's apart. Myself and my peers and seniors would never have dreamt of behaving the way the majority of newer ones do.
I work shift work including nights. It's part of the career and you know what you're signing up for. The new thing seems to be freshly qualified staff suddenly stating they cannot do night shifts due to their mental health, after having done them throughout their training. Have a doctor sign them off and then that's that. Or call in sick for night shifts (and post on social media while enjoying their night out). It's baffling!!

Different industry here, creative and the exact same issues.

Lying, avoiding work, making the most lame excuses. Attitude that if the boss leaves at 3pm they can as well, even though the boss is off to a meeting. They all want to WFH but do nothing to build trust and awful just awful at actually designing anything.

Among all of that we have a select few who are bloody amazing, talented and hard working but it's becoming so rare our industry is already struggling and now I can't see what's left.

I work in an HE institution and have probably sent some (totally unsuitable) graduates to your or similar ITT courses. I’m shocked at which students receive offers for ITT these days. It used to be just our best performing students, but now we’re sending struggling students with 2:2s (and I’m at a post 92) such is the desperation for trainee teachers.

I think the marketization and privatization of education is partly responsible here. We have students who fail several modules, fail resits and are withdrawn from the course as a result. Word has got around that if you complain to the right people (those more concerned with money than academic regulations), you’ll be allowed back on the course so many of them do this, accompanied by claims around mental ill health/ ADHD etc. They’re not students studying for a degree, they’re simply consumers paying for one. No development of any kind of work ethic required.

Agree with the wider point, but as someone whose career chances have been significantly adversely affected by ADHD and associated MH problems despite being academically capable and a hard worker, I just want to flag that neurodivergence is often a genuine barrier for people in the workforce. It’s also very difficult to get a diagnosis as an adult in many parts of the country.

We have the same in tech support. They want to work 9-5 mon-fri in an internet world that works 24/7, demand free food & drinks on tap in the workplace but want to work from home 100% of the time anyway, cry "mental health" when asked to actually do their job, have trips abroad all paid for inc private boat for sightseeing and tons of freebies on top and complain about the luggage allowance not being enough. 30k starting salary in a job that 10 years ago was a 16k starting salary and complain they don't have enough money to go out every night (while living in a city centre penthouse apartment and running 2 cars at age 25) - no not London or anywhere down south.

Have sick days of up to 3 days regularly because they don't need a dr note and will get full pay for them. Had a guy signed off work with depression for 3 months only to have someone send me a link to an FB page where he was all smiles on a week long pub crawl where he was "working" for another business. I actually give up.

What do you think of the thread where a tradesman left a job at 5.30 on a Friday because it was his turn to do bath and bed and his wife wouldn't be happy if she had to do it alone?

He left two older people without heating or hot water over the weekend?

Many posters thought that was the right thing to do

I wonder if so many jobs do actually need degrees?

Back in the dark ages, O- and A-levels were enough and you worked your way up and my goodness, you worked. Or you didn't get anywhere. Or anymore money.
And obviously lots of on the job training after starting at the bottom.

But no loans to pay back. A salary from the start. Mixing with all kinds of people and learning lots. Anything seemed possible.

When I saw this thread's title I knew it would be about teachers.

Who could be surprised by low-level recruits to a job (I hesitate to call it a profession because it isn't) where shortages have been "promoted" over the years by various governments as suitable to be plugged by a "mums' army" and er, actual army? The effect is that anyone can do it, so yes, some real bottom feeders are bound to be attracted.

The larger picture that this is more widespread is interesting.

I think it’s bad luck on your part and not a bad generation. There were just as many slackers back in my hay day.

personally I’d be offering probation type meetings where you can allocate clear targets, they can raise any issues or areas of interest.

Also speak to the provider and explain you have concern about the quality of the trainee recently and you’d like to interview them before proceeding next time.