Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

I agree with this and have witnessed it myself, as has DH and friends from different sectors. The quality of young people leaving school has deteriorated so much in work terms. I do feel sorry for some that they feel so disenfranchised but all I see in others is massive entitlement. I know all the arguments in their defence and that they feel very hard done by but some really don't do themselves any favours.

How I agree
I’m not a teacher but I’ve had trainees working with me who

1. Won’t call our patients in ( a major part of their job. It’s literally standing at the door and asking for ‘john smith’- who is there for an appointment and knows he’s about to be called in And I’ve already said. Hes sat on the black chair / glasses and a beard eg). because ‘anxiety’

2-trainees who won’t an answer the phone - again its literally their job 3-can’t spell - essential 4- go off ill / call in sick for ‘a headache’ - so many sick days Eager to leave early - but want paying in full 5- need so much praise/ handholding / mollycoddling 6- really hate being ‘told what to do’ - not sure how else they’re supposed to know what to do if we don’t tell them / explain why we do what we do And then they seem to only want to do the bare minimum

i think back to my own training in the early 1990’s and so many things current trainees do just would not be tolerated - at all.

Yes I have noticed this change too, I have managed graduates for years (well educated types including oxbridge graduates). The shift has been fairly sudden and palpable over the last 6-7 years I’d say (so pre-Covid).

I’d say it’s multi-faceted.

Gen Z are far less likely to have had an unskilled job as a young teen where you learn so many life skills, confidence and self discipline/motivation. My friends had paper rounds, worked for peanuts in the local chemist/bakery/ pub doing grunt work. Fewer kids have these jobs now- they can actually be harder to come by and parents less likely to encourage them to work/ be independent. I’ve noticed the difference in CVs not having these types of jobs listed.

Declining use of the telephone and conversations in the community. You develop a lot of confidence and communication skills answering the phone and speaking to people out and about. I remember holding conversations with aunty who called to speak to my mum and answered the phone in low paid jobs as a teen. Now people just text/ WhatsApp. People spoke to each other more often when mobile phones didn’t exist, families in pubs/ on trains whatever. Now everyone is glued to phone. Social and communication skills like these are super important for developing self awareness/ confidence/ independence etc

Kids are very aware how much worse their standard of living will be compared to their parents and it’s demoralising. A teacher actually told my nephew he’d never get a mortgage or own a house (this was a few years ago now). I thought that was awful - basically stamped out his aspirations!

Permissive parenting/ overly protective parenting that has backfired because kids are not developing the independence or self discipline skills they need. I’m always surprised by how invested parents are on the Oxbridge threads on here. It’s weird and stifling to be so involved- young people going to university need freedom to grow. These parents are not doing them any favours.

I actually feel sorry for young people today. They have not been given the rich opportunities to grow and develop that we were, too many stay in their comfort zone. It is our generation (X and millennials) that have done this to them, thinking we were being kind and supportive, but really we have set them up to fail. Hopefully they will learn and grow but it could be more painful than it needed to be.

My kids are still young and I’ve been very mindful about these challenges and am trying to get them out of their comfort zone as much as possible but it is difficult in today’s society, where the opportunities are fewer.

It was like this 20 years ago in financial services. Regardless of if they had come through a graduate or intern programme, or if through mummy or daddy’s network.

There are three that stick in my mind:

Intern programme - read the newspaper if not asked to do anything rather than getting off her arse to ask for work.

Daddy knew partner of department - spent his days looking bored and/or terrified.

Graduate summer intern programme - couldn’t be arsed to reply to emails after summer placement so when she didn’t get a 2:1 HR asked me to support her original offer despite her 2:2 and I rejected her given lack of manners

Agree with this. I've been trainee supervising 10+ years and the last couple of years it's been really really bad. Very low resilience and won't do more than the minimum.

I've seen the opposite, where universities are desperate not to upset schools as they want to keep being able to place the students there.

In the last week alone on Mumsnet we have had a thread about complaining to the school about a replacement sticker because their child’s sticker fell off (like every sticker does eventually) and they were distraught. Several complaint threads about teachers speaking assertively or firmly or raising their voice to do so to their child after they were misbehaving or disrupting the learning of others, a thread about pulling a child out of school on account of the school damaging her “mental health” because the teacher wrote “good effort but try not to get distracted and finish the task at hand” (or something to that effect) in their exercise book, and a thread about a parent furious that their genius child was not in top set despite their child not performing at an ability level or achieving measurable, comparative assessment scores consistent with what the top third of the year group were achieving.

It’s all very bleak.

Just refuse them. We now just use their own rhetoric against them: the department is not in a position to support an ECt at this time blah blah. They are more hassle than it’s worth and it’s worrying the state of education - as all will pass and gain QTS as ‘have to’ as already outlined on the thread…

It's not just the 21-25 year olds. We had mental health awareness training at my place of work this year. What I really wanted to say is that I'm sick to the back teeth of listening to some of my direct reports whining about it. I couldn't care less about their self-diagnoses and I wish they'd just show up and do their work to a reasonable standard without expecting a medal for it.

I could not agree with you more!!!

Agree, having recently rejoiced at losing an office assistant (included reception type duties) who despite a v flexible WFH policy, dodged going into the office at every opportunity, and had the attitude of "I'm a graduate, I know how to do that now" - well yes, but we still needed a constant supply of milk & teabags, not to mention that she had no idea of purchasing at a good price.
However I did have a graduate trainee 30+ years ago who despite opening a mound oh post every day, had no concept of addressing an envelope, so not a new problem.

Just to strike a hopeful note, I’ve got a couple of trainees at the moment - early- mid 20s- and they’re bloody brilliant . Switched on, hard working and super efficient. So it’s not all doom and gloom!

Another saying it’s not just in teaching and other professions . I work with several self employed trades people who are overwhelmed with work. All have tried taking on apprentices ( it’s supposedly hard to get an apprenticeship around here ) and all have ended up letting them go for the same reasons quoted above.

eg sick every Monday , arrive late, leave early, insist on lunch at 12 even if they are in the middle of a job, no initiative, not willing to do the grunt work, won’t take instruction, argue back in front of customers, roll their eyes, sulk.

I had a very similar experience in my last job (not education). I’d say you’re lucky if they even turn up…but actually the day was easier if they didn’t.

Tbh I can see both sides to this.

Yes younger generations are more entitled. Tbh I have that attitude to some degree in a side job. The reason being if you don’t want me then fire me. I’m not that bothered if your paying me barely minimum wage when I have 10 years experience and a masters. I can get another job tomorrow.

But equally the mental health and resilience of youngsters at the moment is awful. I’m not sure whether to blame Covid, the general zeitgeist (hopelessness of wages, cost of living, wars, climate change, you name it), or previous upbringing ethos.

I was listening to a random podcast and this head teacher came on and said we have upbringing and education completely the wrong way around. We gentle parent children. Let them explore self learning, think what they want, say what they want, make all their own choices and then as adults we turn around and say no you can’t say what you want, can’t think what you want, do what you want etc. It’s literally the completely wrong way round. And I think I agree with her tbh.

YANBU - we have a secondary trainee who is the same! In a shortage subject and seems like the uni is doing everything not to fail them. Teaching is really tough and I do think some reform of workload etc would be welcome, but if you can't cope with single-digit teaching hours a week when you're given resources to use... It does seem unreasonably soft and calling in last minute setting no cover has a big impact on other staff who have to step in to teach unexpectedly

I'm the generation before yours. We didn't fight for equality between the sexes by crying when interviewers asked us about our plans to have children (because we'd never have got a job, so fight lost before it started). We got equal pay laws and maternity rights through hard-nosed political campaigning and co-ordinated strikes.

This takes application, strategy, dedication, co-operation and it can only stand a chance of success if you've already proved your value to employers. Otherwise, they'd have quite reasonably said "See? We told you women aren't cut out for the workplace. They simply can't deliver, bless them!"

I'm sure Gen Alpha have some very good points to make about work/life balance and futile rigidity. Few of them seem to be showing much promise of the ability to make these points effectively, starting with the obvious need to demonstrate that business can be satisfactorily carried out while working flexibly. In fact, their parents are the generation proving that.

Simply demanding the flexibility and pay cheque, without delivering the work, has a giant flaw as an argument. And I fail to see how people who can't handle being told "no" could hope to negotiate radical changes.

As it happens, I'm in favour of a proper Universal Basic Income - which sounds like it would suit these kids, but it doesn't look like they're going to develop the skills to sort it out! And even if their mums & dads manage to pull it off, they'll probably still be whining that they don't get paid enough for doing nothing ... 🙄

As a pupil, we had some awful awful teacher trainees come in. Some had no control over the class, able to teach.

When I worked with uni students I had a mildly dyslexic student asking me to write him a note to explain he had missed his deadline for another lecturer due to his dyslexia. When I talked to him he had been staying up regularly into the small hours watching manga films. I didn’t give write him his note. I was always ready to help struggling students but there were some who wanted a free pass too frequently. This became quite a trend with some students and lecturers would be very pressured to be lenient. The hard working students who met deadlines were often resentful.

I do want to thank all you PPs for your anecdotes, though. They're really making me laugh!

Just to add, I have had my own challenges with MH. As in being prescribed 40mg of propranolol 3 x per day when almost paralysed by the fear of messing something up (which I didn’t do, I just had some irrational fear of doing). But I have to keep going to keep paying the mortgage down and prevent my only asset from being seized, in the hope of being able to retire somewhat peacefully at 70 years old.

It’s a combination of several things I think:

—the fashion for more permissive parenting (eg parents bending over backwards not to use the word “no” to their kids) causing a huge sense of entitlement;
— also in parenting: kids being scheduled within an inch of their lives, barely having access to free play, etc, which is known to build resilience and independence;
— overloaded school curricula and crumbling public services = teachers have no time to focus on building social/life skills;
— points-driven, extrinsic model of praise and reward at school conditions children to believe that everything must be rewarded instantly and isn’t worth doing in and of itself.
— massive crises (cost of living, environmental, etc) resulting in a large-scale disillusionment in institutions, hierarchies, etc (totally understandable IMO - I sure as hell don’t envy young people coming of age in this shit-show);
— Covid depriving Gen Z of formative developmental experiences;
— Social media fuelling a massive MH crisis among those exposed to it too early (which is the vast majority of children, judging by Ofcom stats).

With all of the above, it’s no wonder this generation of young workers have such little resilience and lack such basic skills.

Yup and I’d I hear ‘my mental health’ with no understanding or explanation of what that actually means.

it’s is not feeling a bit sad for a few hours because you were told your aren’t bloody amazing at everything and didn’t like it x

I don’t doubt you OP. I’ve seen the same, albeit in a different industry - but one that requires commitment too. It’s scary to think how the world will look in 20 years.

I teach in HE and I have some fabulous students - great work ethic, professional attitude, good team working skills, problem solving, excellent communication skills, leadership, can meet deadlines and fulfil a brief, and lovely people to boot. Don't write off this age group in its entirety.