Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

'm a teacher with 24 years' experience. I no longer discipline kids like I used to it,'s not worth the nasty email I'll get from their parents.

it’s not the teachers being soft, it’s the parents sending the nasty emails that prevents the children being set appropriate boundaries at school. Every child that is rude and disruptive has a parent standing behind them refusing to believe staff and accusing the school of discrimination or similar. Im not surprised teachers give up and then these children grow and are supposed to start work? Crazy days.

Hmm I think our place has had a mixed experience. Fast streamers are still high calibre (civil service). But the direct EO entrants have been hit and miss.

One bloke said he had excellent excel skills (we weren't allowed to test that). When he presented me with a table of numbers I asked him to do a further column showing the cash difference and the percentage. He said he didn't know how to do that ....... Luckily he took umbrage at us not allowing him to do a specific course and found another job in the private sector.

Agree - the trainees/ graduates that join my organisation are the same. Think they are entitled to training/ opportunities that have taken others 14 years to achieve, they barely do the basic training for their roles,
they ask for countless paid well-being hours and show no respect to the skills/ experience of more senior staff. And they wear crop tops to the office! They behave like they are at uni and don’t have the awareness to observe and learn the behaviour needed for a professional workplace.

I used to take trainees, slightly different field. I had some very very good, hardworking, thoughtful trainees. I met some incredible young people. But .... In more recent years I also had an increasing number of trainees who thought they knew it all, and who were so cocky and entitled. One in particular was so arrogant I hated coming to work and having to supervise her. She couldn't take feedback and liked to try and supervise me (2 weeks in timber trainee post!) instead of the other way around...

It was sooo irritating having young 20somethings who know nothing about the job, coming into the workplace and thinking they know better than people who've worked there 20 years. I am all up for fresh ideas and bringing new perspectives etc... but not entitled arrogance.

And don't get me started on the lectures about pronouns and trans this and that. One of my more recent trainees was obsessed with trying to persuade me that transwomen are women and there are no differences and we shouldn't say there are (which by the way has nothing to do with the job she was supposed to be there to do...) She was convinced transwomen should compete against biological women in running, swimming etc.. in elite sport because apparently that's fair and she burst into tears when I said I didn't agree but respect her opinion. Apparently that was deeply offensive 🤷 When I dared suggest that outside her college friends there are people with lots of different views about transwomen and their participation in elite sport, and not all agree with her, she reported me to her college for.not being socially progressive🤷 I couldn't care less what her views on transwomen were. I thought it was good she was passionate and had some strong opinions, but don't assume at 20yrs old you are right and everyone else is wrong and we should all think like you 😡

I'm with you OP and I'm nodding along at quite a lot of the replies.

We had some young trainees last year and we let them all go. They were unmanageable.

It was desk work and they'd be sat at their desk playing on the phones. When told to put their phones away until break time, we had tears, attitude, excuses , answering back ("but but but...").

They were extremely reluctant to answer the phone (part of their job ) and had to be explicitly told each time "can you answer the phone please ?".

When drafting a formal letter to a prospective client , they honestly thought "Hey John" was an acceptable start.

Absence constantly. Lateness (everyone else managed to get in on time).

They had no initiative, no proactiveness and no effort.

I love this! They will stand out and go far!

Those who were at university or 6th form during COVID are pretty stunted in their development.

If you started university in 2019, you only got to spend a few months on campus before the move to online learning. Not having to leave your bedroom to get a degree wasn't good. It bred a sense of passivity, that someone else makes things happen and I can participate as and when I feel like it.

All the usual life experiences that would have built competence and resilience in this period were skipped - part-time jobs, organising student events, teenage romances that end in heartbreak...

Obviously student mental health was a priority during COVID, but it led to easier assessment measures. It means this generation doesn't have a true sense of what good work actually looks like.

People who went through university before them and are now their supervisors in the workplace expect more from them, because their own university experience was more rigorous.

This is a Gen Z thing! It's totally a thing. They're all really aware of their boundaries and their mental health. Which I sort of admire, but makes them a bloody nightmare in the workplace!!

It's certainly going to be interesting when the only teachers left are the 'I can't be expected to plan and ooh my mental health' types meet the indulged children who never heard no, have parental diagnoses and ooh my mental health issues.

You do all know that today's 20-year-olds will be reaching their prime during a period of incredible growth? The glitches in sustainable energy will have been sorted out by then, facilitating all kinds of invention & development that's currently too power-hungry to pursue; AI will be coming of age, bringing sci-fi levels of possibility (and problems, sure: very able humans will be earning very enviable amounts to help guide this new growth).

I am genuinely sorry I'm going to miss all this; it's going to be brilliant. Your young people are losing their places at the start of this phase, while the smaller number with common sense, ability and vision are already flying.

Stop preaching doom and gloom. Things are actually better (in general) than they've ever been, and the near future's going to be fucking amazing. These kids need to get their thumbs out of their mouths and start using their brains.

I agree that something seems to have got lost during their development - but, be fair, the previous generations that wrought big social & economic changes had survived wars, plagues and famines among other disasters. Historically and realistically, it's not normal to live a totally easy life. I just hope your 'trainees' feel hard enough done by, fast enough, to decide they need to change the world.

It's not just the younger age group. I work with professionals mainly aged 45-60 on fixed-term projects and since the pandemic there's been a very noticeable increase in the number who think they can log off at 4pm every day and 1pm on Fridays, clock in late, "need" afternoons off to walk the dog, moan about the smallest request to collate admin, can't meet deadlines, take days to reply to email etc. Most are OK and this is a small minority but we've definitely noticed it in my office!

That’s really surprising. I work in a professional services firm where we have a large number of trainees and they’re fantastic. Our current one and the one we had before him are particularly excellent - really hard working, enthusiastic and pleasant. They also get really involved in the culture of the firm and do a lot of our ESG work.

I’m particularly impressed because their university experience was so affected by covid, and some of them did their summer placements entirely online.

Is there possibly a culture issue at your firm? Are they feeling demotivated, or is something depressing morale? I can’t believe we’ve just been consistently lucky over the last few years so if most of yours are really not getting on, it could be a problem with your workplace instead.

I don't understand why is everyone at the school holding their hands and mollycoddling them. Hasn't anyone had a stern word with them stating, start and end times, jobs that need to be done and on time. Real reports to the Uni, refuse to sign off on incompetent people. When you put your name to their paperwork and pass them, it makes it look like you think it's all OK.
We got a few youngsters start at my work as Nurse assistants. No one held their hands they got a short time shadowing a more senior assistant a load of online training and in person classes and were told how to get on with it.
First day late they were told by the nurse how it's not appropriate etc etc. Not getting stuff done the nurse in charge had a sit down, office door closed chat. Nine out of ten pulled it together and did well. The other would get upset, try and make excuses (non were accepted) Didn't last more than 2 weeks and left.
Life is bloody hard, they need to keep up.

I think social media has had a huge affect on the younger generation (and I say this as a 30yo millennial).

A lot of them lack worth ethic, critical thinking, motivation, initiative and just basic customer service skills. (This is from my experience of working alongside them and being served by them in different settings).

They’re totally against the traditional 9-5, aspire to be TikTok stars and influencers. Self diagnose mental illnesses, ADHD, ASD and more. Refuse to work somewhere if they cannot work from home and dictate their own hours.

Anyone who challenges them is a “Karen” and they have an excuse for everything. They take no accountability for themselves.

(Obviously this isn’t aimed at all young people. I’m sure there are a lot of Mumsnetters who have children in their late teens and early 20’s who are successful and hardworking.)

I’m not disputing PPs’ experience, but how does this fit with the higher academic expectations on young people nowadays? DD is in Year 11, and the curriculum is much harder than when I did GCSEs (1988!). They are also expected to revise for more or less the whole school year, as well as going to extra sessions at lunchtime. And I assume A levels are therefore also significantly harder, and there seems to be much more competition for certain university courses.
Is it that they don’t have the opportunity to develop ‘soft’ skills because education has become so academic? Or are they hoping to have a bit of breather now they’re finally out off the education treadmill?

Completely agree. Most things aren’t “mental health” issues. They are just the slings and arrows of normal life. It’s normal to feel extremely anxious during exams or an interview, it’s normal to feel like shit when you’ve been dumped, it’s normal to feel unnerved that you are behind the class in understanding something or get poor grades because you’ve spent your years pissing about in lessons and playing video games into the early hours instead of getting a book out and revising or looking over work you didn’t get earlier and giving it another go.

Resilience and stoicism are very attractive qualities. I’m not even talking obscene levels of putting up with hardship but just the absolute bare minimum levels would be good for kids to learn these days. They also need to understand that something can still be their responsibility without it being their fault. It might not be your fault that the train that just gets you into work on time each day is always late, but it is your responsibility to sort that problem out and get to work on time. That might mean getting the train earlier as a buffer but things like this seem to perplex so many youngsters. It’s not your fault if your laptop packs up one hour before your assignment deadline but it was your responsibility to get it done on time or face the consequences.

I don’t think Covid caused this. This decline was happening rapidly anyway (ask any teachers). All Covid did was expedite it by about five years.

YANBU
My team (a front office role in an investment bank) has been a revolving door of juniors. We had to let go most of them (and would have had to let go the others if they hadn’t left by themselves). Most of them are highly entitled yet needing to be spoon fed, missing deadlines, no resilience… I’ve been doing this job for 25 years and have seen the downward trend.

People will make all the excuses in the world OP. But I work in a law firm and we are seeing the exact same thing. I personally believe that one factor in this is that many parents don’t want their kids to work during school/uni any more.

i understand it’s because they don’t want them distracted from exams etc but in my view, these jobs in retail, call centres etc are absolutely the making of young people. Conflict resolution. Dealing with the public. Self confidence. Resilience. It’s so, so important.

I should have added this started pre Covid. 2015 maybe.
I have noticed my sample shares a common characteristic, being spoilt by their parents and having been told their whole life they’re a genius (most of them come from good if not top unis).

I was in NHS radiography. We had many good, committed students, but I cannot tell you how many would wander in mid morning, Monday, and then ask you to sign off their week's attendance. You refuse? The student coordinator would send out a group email reminding us of the Trust's anti-bullying policy. Imagine telling a student that they actually need to turn up in order for you to sign off their attendance!!

The obvious conflict of interest between a uni who needs to attract new students and pass them all with firsts, and the workplace that is expected to provide the 'clinical placements' for these students, and find many unsuitable- needs addressing.

A properly run apprenticeship scheme would do this.

@ChannelLightVessel I completely agree - I don't envy the young ones now because the pressure on them is huge

They will complain about their mental health, then it is bullying.
we’ve had this in our workplace. And then everyone is scared about an enquiry and bullying allegation

It's from primary to job entry that the problems happens. Kids aren't allowed out to play, too dangerous. Get forced through exams. Lack of participation in part time jobs. Lockdown.

At all stages, young people have had their independence stunted; it is annoying when they are ill equipped for the work place but there is so little chance to make mistakes and build resilience growing up today.

We need a society that is more child development needs centred - but not in the Molly coddling way, in a way that lets them gown and develop more fully than just via school.

@Changingplace It takes a lot of courage for a manager to put juniors on a performance improvement plan… They will accuse the manager of bullying, some will take a lawyer who will then make spurious claims…

Probably because they need new teachers desperately?