To feel a bit down at the amount of selfish behaviour around?

[NoisyDenimShaker]

I'm in the young-middle-age bracket. Over the past few years, many friends, acquaintances, and family members have had serious illnesses, and some have died. While there are, of course, many lovely and caring people around, I find myself aghast at the amount of breathtakingly selfish behaviour I've witnessed. People not visiting their ill friends and family, people ignoring the bereaved, people just so, so wrapped up in themselves, people who are all about their own lives and really not caring about anyone who isn't a spouse or child. It's got me down a bit sometimes, tbh. Some of it's in my own family, which has not been fun.

I find that young people are much less selfish. It seems that people hit middle age and all hell breaks loose, with more people than you'd expect being laser-focused on themselves. I don't remember this being the case at all when I was in my twenties and doing the London thing, seeing friends a lot etc. I don't remember having cause to marvel at all the selfish behaviour on display back then. It seems to have happened in middle age.

Has anyone else noticed a startling upswing in selfish behaviour from late thirties onwards?

Also, having children makes it hard to do anything at all as it's non-stop. A friend of mine has recently been bereaved and I want to support her, but finding the time for calls has been so difficult, I've had to try to put aside time when I'm meant to be catching up with work, at the weekends when DC's with my ex.

People are encouraged to be selfish though. Look at the threads here - MIL’s should stay away, people’s only focus should be on their wife/dc. Definitely seems more of a tendancy to be more insular.

I don't entirely agree.

Late thirties and all of forties, people are stretched so thin, I mean your mum probably didn't work full time and look after kids at the same time, my mum never worked full time ever, although she certainly worked.

Nowadays, people often don't live near their family particularly, and if they have children, their lives are wrapped up in that and ferrying them to the sports clubs on the weekend. People are tired.

I do agree some people are selfish above and beyond that, but often they are just stretched.

I have been on the receiving end of a lot of kindness though, but I think it's easier if you have a lot of friends and relatives, not one or two. If it's spread out then a few people doing a little bit becomes very supportive. It sounds like your relative did go with the other one to scans and so on so you can't say they did nothing even if you don't agree with them posting on Facebook.

I also agree with whoever said if you are very family oriented and spend a lot of time with family before illness hits, this pays off later on. On Mumsnet, any type of inter-dependence is looked down on, so is sharing money, childcare, fun, anything too burdensome in terms of family. I come from a very sharing family which some might find claustrophobic, but I know if anyone is ill or needs money or has something to celebrate, we are all there, for all of us, and that makes it easier when the bad things happen, as they inevitably do as we age.

Yes, it's a tendency I've noticed a lot. It does seem as if society is going in a very insular direction. I think a great part of that is social media and streaming - there is so much entertainment at home! - and pressure to be perfect parents, and the pandemic was just the cherry on the top when it comes to breaking connections between people and the wider world.

I'm late 30s and don't have kids and I can see myself getting more selfish. Before I used to donate to tons of different causes, let things slide with people, buy more things for others, volunteer, bake for the local hospital staff, etc. Now I have more of an f- it attitude, I feel very jaded about the world now compared to when I was in my 20s. I met people thinking the best of them and now I don't do that. I don't feel bad for homeless people on the street any more, I just think, why don't you do something with your life. I can't be bothered with the things I used to do.

I don't really like becoming like this, but it's like what's the point. What's the point spending hours litter picking and then just watching people throw their crap in the street after, not caring. Why shouldn't I be irritated if my neighbour is knocking on my door all the time asking me for things. I've just lost patience with it all.

I agree with how stretched everyone is, and yes, my mum worked part-time until we were quite a bit older, and then full-time. I agree also about the trend for inter-dependence to be seen as undesirable. I definitely know people who only care about their spouse if no kids, or their spouse and kids, and I also know single people who are utterly self-obsessed and dominate every conversation talking about themselves. (I do know lots of nice people too, it's just that the ones who make pains of themselves with their selfishness stand out more.)

Unless your relatives are toxic, I don't understand the trend for things to be nuclear family only. I have such lovely fond memories of my grandparents and of Christmases with aunts, uncles, cousins etc. The time we spent together helped those connections remain strong for many, many years after we all grew up.

Ahhhh, that's a pity, potcakes! Do you think you did too much before and need to step back, or are you maybe a bit down because of the dark nights and everything?

I think it's a general thing, can't say it applies to one age group. People are just generally more self-centred and entitled these days, and it seems many have forgotten or have never been taught how to behave considerately to others.

Doing your best is exhausting. Most people muddle through.

I agree. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed it. Caring about others when there's nothing in it for you seems to be positively old-fashioned these days.

Not much mention of men in all this. I don't remember them being routinely required to drop everything to look after extended family members.

And there are more unpaid carers than ever these days. People used to be shut up in asylums and hospitals at the drop of a hat. Babies taken away from their mothers just because the mum wasn't married. What a caring society it was.

Take your rose coloured glasses off about the past, get off the internet and news media and find out what is really going on in the world.

I've been referring to "people" throughout, I think. And the family situations I'm thinking of were immediate family, not extended.

I've seen what's going on in the world...that's why I'm sharing my observations. And mine is that I see a lot of selfishness in the world today.

Agree with your point about the bad old days, but wasn't that to do with policies back then? Everyone says that in those days, there was a greater sense of community.

Surely it has more to do with the fact that people work longer hours and most families are dual income with both going out to work? My mum was a stay at home mum til I was 11 and then never worked completely full time, so obviously she had more time for friends, neighbours and to look after relatives. To have the standard of living that she and my dad had would be unthinkable now on one wage, and even my dad's professional job was not particularly demanding, he was home by 4 every day with his feet up! It was a different world, and people with more leisure time and only one out of the home working parent in our parents generation would have had more time to be community minded.

I think a lot of the time as you get older you realise you don’t have to people please and hang out with people you don’t like/ don’t bring anything to your life. That can include family

I think that's true. My dad had a good job but arrived home at 5 everyday.

I agree if you have toxic family members, but otherwise, I don't get it. Family is who's there for you ultimately (if not toxic) and sometimes they can be annoying, but no one's perfect.

People have made some good points about how exhausted and busy everyone is these days, compared to when I was growing up. Thank you!

I know exactly what you mean. My siblings family decided the best way to deal with a dementia diagnosis was to stay away and remember the family member as they was. Aka not wanting to help with any needs. I can put my year on my pillow at night knowing I did my best.

This.

Exactly.

You did the right thing, and there's so much joy to be had in that.

To others maybe you appear the selfish one to them? No one knows enough about others to judge except for the need to make themselves feel better

This is truly heartbreaking please know I hear you and understand what you are saying, having lost my Mum in my mid teens, many years ago, different times.

I hope you sourced help and support with your grief as an adult and you have found a way to live with your loss.

My heart goes out to you and I want to rescue you as a 13 year old having to cope with a devastating loss. That girl was so brave, so courageous and found a way through, you should be very proud of yourself 💙.

This really resonates for me. Over the past decade I have been one of the primary carers for two terminally ill people- a close friend and my uncle. In both cases I was horrified at how few people showed up during the illness even to just pop in to have a cup of tea. It has really made me focus on only expending energy on friendships where I know we would both definitely be there for each other in a bad situation. Selfish and oblivious people are extremely unattractive and I wish people would stop focusing so much on themselves and remember that a community is built by people all showing some care and decency to each other.

@DBD1975 ah, thank you so much. That's so kind of you. I'm sorry about the loss of your lovely mum. I think a few decades ago they didn't really have any MH support for bereaved kids sadly. It's not easy and it does feel like it's kind of scarred me for life a bit. But I had 13 years with a loving dad who was fantastic. Lots of people aren't that lucky.
So we should try and look at what we do have, rather than what we don't. Or don't anymore. It's not always the easiest of course.
Your lovely supportive words mean a lot. You sound like a really nice person. So thank you again ❤️ xxx

Nobody has ever said I'm selfish, quite the opposite, and many of the incidences I'm talking about are from people I know intimately.

Don't worry, I wouldn't have known such selfishness was possible until people started getting sick and dying, either. I have a friend who swore her sister would never leave her in the lurch if their parents got sick...well, their dad now has terminal cancer, and guess who's left the whole burden to my friend, who has two young children and a tiny house with no spare rooms and one bathroom? That's right, the sister nearby with a large house and no kids. (The parents are staying with my friend during chemo because they're too far from the cancer centre otherwise, and her sister can't possibly have them to stay because the cat doesn't like her mum.) The sister is also very flaky about appts. So my friend has everyone crammed in to her house, one kid has given up their room, she's looking after her elderly parents, one with Stage 4 cancer, while working full-time, having two young kids and a marriage to maintain, while other sis's life is not impacted at all, as she stretches out in her house where she lives with only her wife, and my friend buckles under the strain. But her sis doesn't care about that.

Utter selfishness.