To feel a bit down at the amount of selfish behaviour around?

[NoisyDenimShaker]

I'm in the young-middle-age bracket. Over the past few years, many friends, acquaintances, and family members have had serious illnesses, and some have died. While there are, of course, many lovely and caring people around, I find myself aghast at the amount of breathtakingly selfish behaviour I've witnessed. People not visiting their ill friends and family, people ignoring the bereaved, people just so, so wrapped up in themselves, people who are all about their own lives and really not caring about anyone who isn't a spouse or child. It's got me down a bit sometimes, tbh. Some of it's in my own family, which has not been fun.

I find that young people are much less selfish. It seems that people hit middle age and all hell breaks loose, with more people than you'd expect being laser-focused on themselves. I don't remember this being the case at all when I was in my twenties and doing the London thing, seeing friends a lot etc. I don't remember having cause to marvel at all the selfish behaviour on display back then. It seems to have happened in middle age.

Has anyone else noticed a startling upswing in selfish behaviour from late thirties onwards?

I’m firmly in middle age. Out of my cohort the ones who put in more time with their family now, are those whose families were family oriented when we were kids. Those of us who do not, were those of us who were taught that career and personal success came first and family second.

As pp said relationships are an investment. What you put in often impacts what you get out.

I appreciate that insight.

With some people you get out what you put in, but not with selfish people.

Yeah, I had one relative who did hardly anything for our mutual relative, but on the rare occasion they did accompany the patient to a scan or something, they'd post about it on FB and get lots of sympathy.

How well do you really understand the relationships between these people?

How well do you know what else is happening in their lives.

You're standing in judgment on them from the outside, saying they don't fit your personal view of what caring looks like.

Maybe they're not actively caring in order to protect themselves - which you might see as selfish but others would class as putting their own oxygen mask on first.

Yes, I've noticed this too but it's mainly our parent's generation that I've been very disappointed by. My parents never call or initiate contact with me - you'd think we'd had a massive falling out or something, but no. When I do finally give in and contact them my mother dominates the conversation and doesn't ask how I am or show much interest. My father barely makes a peep. My mother in law also dominates conversations and doesn't ask how we are or show much interest. I'm pretty sure none of my family knows what I do for work.

I've definitely realised I can't rely on family or friends for any emotional support. Maybe people have always been this selfish and I'm just noticing now?

I don't want to say too much. Some are immediate family, some are good friends, some are acquaintances. So some I know better than others. Point is, I've noticed it quite a lot.

What have you noticed?

People not meeting your expectations of what they should be doing?

Even with good friends, I am aware that I only see a small part of their lives and that I don't fully understand all that is going on with them.

I think you need to focus on doing what you are happy to do and let others do likewise.

But that’s your family dynamics. You really have no idea why other people might choose not to visit a sick family member. It’s very easy to judge a situation without knowing the full story. I know an unwell elderly man (relative) who complains that his children do not visit him despite living close by. These are the same children who were subjected to horrific physical abuse at his hands when they were younger. He comes across as quite a sweet old man now and I know many people who do not know the back stories feel very sorry for him and tut about his ungrateful, unfeeling children. They have no idea.

I don't want to say too much, but I have witnessed selfishness on a grotesque scale towards the deeply ill, from people who stood to inherit a lot from said sick people, and I do know, bc I'm closely related. It's not my version of caring, it's what any decent person would do.

I think it's really hard to understand if you haven't had a lot of serious sickness or death in your life. The amount of bad behaviour is horrendous. I would never have believed it if I hadn't experienced these things. One friend, when our mutual cherished friend told him about his incurable cancer, actually said "What about me?" And while someone else was dying, a couple of people REALLY kicked off and behaved atrociously, upsetting the dying person and everything.

Believe me, I have good reasons to marvel, open-mouthed, at some of the breathtakingly selfish behaviour I've witnessed in the last decade or so.

It's not everyone, of course. Just enough people that it's got me down. I've started thinking, "Is this what we're really like as a species??"

Maybe it's just that middle-aged people are so stretched with being the sandwich generation and being at the height of our careers. I had an exceptionally caring mum who was really busy but she made time for people, so perhaps my expectations are too high.

It's not something I've noticed or have experience of, could it be just a minority if people you know

Tbh I find younger people more selfish than people in my age bracket - which is middle aged. I think more so the teens coming through now, into nearly adulthood, have been raised a lot different to how my generation were raised. A lot of soft parenting, resulting in self entitled kids which leads to self entitled adults. I live near a school, the blatant littering by kids is awful, and they’re not pulled up on it by their parents. My generation were raised to be more polite and considerate I think.

A neighbour died, they were their partners carer. I offered to walk the dog and helped in other ways. But the last few days, I haven't been able to fit anyone else in. The neighbour is sleeping badly, so still asleep when I have time of a morning. In my family, I've had unexpected appointments, unexpected major house repairs (I'm a carer to two relatives) and I've had to do emergency childcare.
You might think that you know the lives of acquaintances, but you might not know the full story. I'm starting to develop arthritis and at nearly 60, like a pp, there's times I'm knackered.

As said, more women were economically inactive, people lived closer to each other, there was less to do re children. People did expect less leisure time, but I'm not sure that I'd call that selfish.

Yes. It makes me wonder how people who don't see the importance of grandparents in their kids' lives (assuming the GPs aren't toxic) will fare when they're GPs themselves. If you model that the only family that matters is the nuclear one, then you might not see much of your own GPs.

I'm talking again about selfish folk, not about the many people who are generous with their time towards their parents and siblings.

Wow, it's amazing that you were willing to help your neighbour! I'm talking about people who are much closer to each other than neighbours though.

To take another example of selfishness, although I've never been widowed, it seems to be a common experience that people who have lost a spouse find that other couples who were previously really close friends don't reach out to include them. I've heard a lot of people say that, and read numerous articles about it. I think that's pretty selfish. Any of those people could end up in the same boat.

Honestly, I never experienced it at all until people around me started getting ill and dying. It really seems to bring out the absolute worst in some people.

OP, I'm just wondering, do you have children yourself?

No, I don't.

I wonder if it correlates with having kids. Meaning, people get myopic in their focus on proving the best they can for their kids at the expense of everything and everyone else. There’s huge pressure these days to the the best parent one can possibly be. Not necessarily a bad thing of course, but maybe it stops us looking outside the family unit and our wider social responsibilities as much as we did before.

Yes, could well be. Parenting does seem to come with more pressures today than ever before.

I think you're right about bad behaviour, selfishness, etc. towards people who are ill, dying or bereaved, but, as I experienced it so much firsthand in my 20s, I don't think it's just in middle age. I think it's that people show their true colours in such situations and that it's more noticeable to us when we're suffering and need kindness.

That's a great insight. Thank you!

I've had death and illness around me, and still not experienced this

Immediate family, like losing parent, sibling, spouse, child?