To voluntarily put my child into care

[Crumplesock]

We are at the point now where we think we may need to either put our eldest into the care system or seperate and live in 2 seperate homes to keep our children apart for fear that the eldest will seriously harm the younger two children. However, I'm not sure how we will actually finance two seperate homes (even 2 x 1bedroom flats).

Our son is autistic with a PDA profile. We are low demand parenting, and he does not attend school after being excluded and we are following his lead in Home Education. We followed the At Peace Parenting Course (which is amazing and so insightful, if not a little crazy on price!) but she told us we need to radically accept that this is our son's disability, this is part of it and we need to accommodate it. She shared how her family had to live sperately for a while. We are being advised by all the professionals that we are doing all we can for our son's needs and are accommodating and parenting him in line with his disabilities. But I just feel so broken at it.

As our son is getting bigger, his level of aggression is increasing and becoming harder to manage. We attempt to keep the children separated at all times but this is hard when there is only 1 parent at home and all 3 do need to be watched constantly.

Our other two children, and us parents too, are receiving multiple injuries daily.

Our son has taken to doing home workouts, which is absolutely brilliant and I want to encourage a healthy lifestyle but his strength is crazy. I've witnessed him do 20+ pull ups, he can now lift 1.5× his bodyweight in a Deadlift. I spoke to him about this passion of his and he said its so he can always make sure he is the strongest and to make people scared of him.

I know deep down there's a scared boy in there, whose doing this as a reaction to school trauma and being pushed around by school bullies (he had it quite bad). But it also terrifies me at how he is stronger than me and it won't be long before he levels with my husband.

I have spoke to Social Sevices today who has said they'll get a support package and stated that this is Child-on-parent (and sibling) abuse and that they do need to safe guard our other children

I thought the OP said he was kind to animals and wanted to protect them?

With a child like this then negative consequences don't work that well.
However the following do work well:

1. Expectations - even if they are very simple. Your expectation is that you will get dressed and not hit your sister - when you have done this you get half an hour's screen time.
2. Positive choices give positive outcomes - so rather than saying "you have lost your trip to get sweets because you pulled your sister's hair" you need to say "are you choosing to pull your sister's hair or are you choosing to go and get sweets".
3. Talking less. I had this conversation with DS' teacher (who gets it!) that it really annoys anyone to be asked to do something many times. But children who seek adrenaline bursts will escalate through arguing, and it also makes them think you will change your mind. Say once "it's time to get dressed", repeat if necessary "when you are dressed we will X". Then no more talking.
4. Ignoring and taking yourself out of the situation. Where our DD is in the crossfire we need to take her out of the situation and sometimes go in the other room, lean on the door, and talk to her calmly and DS not at all. If it is just him, we can often get away with just going in the next room and tidying or washing up without saying anything. Earbuds help.
5. Waiting. DS now does his own washing. The first time we asked him to bring the basket down it took four hours. Then an hour of moaning. Now he does it spontaneously.

I am so sorry you are going through this terribly difficult time.
I think it's time for you to put him into care . It's very sad for you all but my DGS has just been put into care for similar reasons and he is very happy thankfully.
I wish you all the very best .

Why was he given weights to lift given that he is aggressive and wants to become stronger?

I was the sibling in this situation and I would beg you to have him live separately from the other children. The impact on our family was dreadful.

Yes - that is the reality , the emotional side of needing residential care is all too real - but current policies and practices make it extremely difficult to access. I'm quite surprised so many are not aware of this

My apologies for misreading.

HOWEVER...OP, the "kind to animals and wanting to protect them" is still a MASSIVE red flag. Given his aggressive violence towards his own family, wanting to get stronger, and your accounts of manipulative, premeditated behaviour and lack of empathy mixed with a contrasting 'artistic sensitive' side, I would not put it past your son to harm animals.

A lot of children with tendencies to harm animals often feign an overt protectiveness of them to get in more situations closer to them. Like how paedophiles are often very friendly and overprotective of children until they launch their payload once the rapport is built, its how they can convince people to get close to them.

I did this.
My daughter wasn't safe from herself, and I wasn't safe from her.

Social services have a legal responsibility to safeguard you and your children.

Everytime you or your child is injured and they are aware this is a likely outcome and they have done nothing they are breaking the law

UNLESS they persuade you to say, often in underhand sneeky ways that you are willing to take the risk and therefore the responsibility. Usually by a nice visit from a very pleasant social worker who will tell you their is nothing more they can do or who will scare you as to what will happen if your child ends up in care

You as a carer have the legal right not to be forced into taking on care that damages your physical or mental health. Document (ideally with a medical professional) injuries. Document your and your other childrens mental health difficulties.

Social services will do everything to get out their legal responsibilities as fulfilling them is expensive. Way more expensive than putting the responsibility back on you. Yes it may take you saying we as a family can't do this anymore, it is causing too much harm and we're not OK with that

Beg or borrow the money to get a solicitor on board asap. You need it. Social services will treat you better when you do.

There are things like residential schools. And their are options where you child can remain in the home, (but they are very intrusive to all involved). I know people who have successfully pursued the Foster care route too.

Posters never do on here i have read so many threads were posters seem to think it's a simple process and there is an abundance of residential schools available just ready and waiting.

I have a similar sounding (but older) child. I tried the low demand approach and it didn’t work for us. It just reiterated his belief that he was in charge and could control what we all did. I then did this course, and found it immensely useful: https://www.compass-ion.org/programmes/#:~:text=Who's%20in%20Charge%3F%20is%20a,abusive%20and%20beyond%20parental%20control.

I highly recommend it.

@CowboyJoanna. He recently cried because he found a baby crab next to a dead mummy crab (I explained it doesn't work like that and I was quite sure it was a shell that a bigger crab had shedded). He is also incredibly gentle and very passionate about farming practices improving (learnt from school). I do not see any sociopath behaviour in him but instead a very anxious child with a nervous system disability

Has the local authority done a care assessment and produced a care plan? If not, you need to ask for that immediately: they have no choice about doing this under section 17 Children Act 1989. It sounds as if any care plan should, as a minimum, include substantial respite care.

I assume he has an EHC Plan? What provision is in there for his education and support? Even if they can't find a school at present the LA should be putting in place full time home tuition and therapies, even if that means in practice they have to have a tutor and a TA with him at all times.

I agree with people's suggestions that you look for a full time residential placement, whether that is a 52 week residential school or a school plus attached residential home. It very much sounds as if your son needs to be in the care of people fully trained and qualified to work with him properly, and certainly your other children need to be safe.

Thank you @Harrumphhhh shall take a look at this course.

Again, I just want to thank everyone for taking their time to read and respond. Bit overwhelmed by how many responses there are but I am trying to read them all. Back in the family home now so shall respond after bed time.

Are you home schooling all three children? If so you are making life hard for yourself. Send the other two to school and that will help loads

There is a care route. Social services rely on people saying "I guess we will just have to get on with it.

'I cant do this anymore, this is not safe. Here is the documentation of it causing harm". Social services have a legal right to safeguard especially any other vulnerable adults or children (disabled sibling)

Don't be scared into pursuing options

Get a solicitor involved

He is not gentle OP. You need to stop making excuses for his behaviour. Gentle children do not hurt their family. Gentle children do not try to poison their classmates. Gentle children do not scare their teachers.

However, he does sound scarily manipulative. Especially with the teary overreaction of the crabs, and he becomes friendly and nice when hes getting what he wants.

OP I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your family. I have a little bit of experience with this but with older children. The trauma is very real for younger siblings and must not be allowed to continue.
However, you are between a rock and a hard place. Your eldest is only eight and must be very confused and frightened too and only knows how to handle it by lashing out. Is there any way you can get an autism coach, therapist, OT? if there was a time to throw money at a problem then this is it. Your child is still only eight and you have an opportunity to help him before things go badly wrong for him as a teen or young adult.
Until you can get something set up, then I think there is merit in keeping the two little ones away even if that means driving around in the car in the evenings. Little ones can fall asleep in the car if need be, I know it’s not ideal, far from it, but it is a way to keep them safe in the short term and hopefully none of your kids will remember this when they grow up.

You don't need to respond either so don't put the pressure on yourself. Hopefully people will direct experience can guide you, be careful about reading advice here because most will have no idea about your situation and myself included and shouldn't be advising you on care homes. Xxx keep strong

OP I will try to say this in the nicest way.

From someone who lived a situation at home with a horrible sibling always always protected by my mother, (and the level of violence wasn't as bad as what you describe but still bad), it fucks up your life in a big way. I cannot forgive my mother and I am in my late forties now with my own family.

So I give you my perspective of your other two children who are now very small but could be one day me. They are going to grow up thinking they aren't worth your protection. Their mum protecting the bully, low demanda with the bully, walking on eggsshells and fear etc. And the hitting and fear cycle continues.

You walk them around a supermarket at night. That's not good enough. Posters always sympathise with the mother. But my sympathy is for your other kids. They didnt chose to be in this situation, and your job is to protect them first. You chose to have 3 children, not just one.

Another very concerning point is that the 8 year old don't just hit but plans in advance the harming others: wants to be strong lifting weights to fight with others and contaminate water bottles with glue. That's really really concerning. And also resonates.

I personally don't care about my sibling diagnose. I spent my childhood listening to all of that while never being protected. My mother put always my other sibling first. She still thinks my sibling has deep down a lovely artistic mind etc. You have now idea how much it still hurts to hear that.
You cannot imagine the issues I have still as an adult that stem from that. I am on therapy still now.

Your son needs to go to a care setting. Because you owe your other two children a safe environment to grow up. The rest is secondary.

My friend has a son like this and she found medication really helped. Her son was so violent that he broke one of her bones and had attacked his sibling and pet several times. If you can't keep your children separate then I'd seriously start exploring medication

Agree completely. You need to protect your other children and yourselves from abuse and risk of attack.

I grew up with a sibling with ASD and the trauma and bewilderment lives on, I hate to say.

please don’t wait for a crisis and please don’t feel guilty. You sound amazing and have tried so much.

Has he had an ADHD assessment?

It's so commonly co-morbid with autism, and in boys especially can cause massive aggression, oppositional defiance type behaviour, and bursts of huge physical exercise.

Medication can make a child so much calmer and more able to engage with others calmly and reasonably. My daughter refused to take her meds once for a few days and school, who previously saw no issues, moved to saying she had to take her meds or they'd have to have an emergency review. She was argumentative and difficult beyond belief - they were staggered. I know a fair number of severely ADHD kids whose extreme behaviour calmed with meds (and for those who think: yeah, they were sedated! ADHD meds not sedating, but stimulants; they are a mild form of speed. Try giving a kid who doesn't have ADHD speed - it is unlikely to calm them down, to put it mildly!)

Ignore the armchair psychologists. You can't even diagnose a PD till someone is an adult, fgs, and I don't think an armchair psychologist making histrionic statements about an unknown 8 year old based on Mumsnet posts has a fucking clue.

School trauma is the absolute pits. I would tell Social Care, as has been said, every time he hurts or threatens anyone in the home - keep a detailed log - tell them you can't cope and aren't coping. If they can coax you into saying that you are, or lie in the files that you've said that, they can save money. You need to email them the log of the injuries/attacks/threats and say that it is not safe, your kids are not safe, please help. You need a paper trail. The services can and do lie after the fact, and if you haven't got it in writing, you can't prove what actually happened and what was actually said.

It sounds like he may benefit from a proper EOTAS: does he have one, or are you being fobbed off? Anything that educates and trains can go in an EHCP and that can mean mentoring and a lot of therapies. You should also have a teacher and/or TA to be working with him in the week, not in your home if you aren't willing for it to be.

Is there any capacity to afford legal support, and if not, might you be entitled to legal aid?

Medication only helps if the child's violence is out of temper.

OP's son sounds very cruel and calculating in his behaviour (he plans it in advance, keeps people sweet in the meantime with overly gentle 'lovebombing' behaviour before bullying again), medication would not help with this.

Agree you should investigate the care route. The parenting course sounds batshit mad imo.
I don’t think you should separate the family. I would try to not allow one child affect the others to such a great extent as a family split would. It’s very hard and I take my hat off to you. In your shoes I would look at what care options were available. Even if it was part time. It would be wise aswell because one day you won’t be there anymore and he will need to live independently and safely. Best of luck x