To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

[Monwmum]

I'm probably going to be slated for even suggesting it....but in the private sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s because they are a money pit and unsustainable. They were continued in the public sector as a sweetener because (apparently) public sector jobs were lower paid.

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely. However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%.

Quite a difference! Am I being unreasonable to say this would be a good place to start saving some of our tax money? And before people start saying there would be outrage just remember this was done to every private sector employee in the early 2000s so it can be done.

You sure about that? The cut off is very low. A pensioner with an income of £13k wouldn't get it, for example.

Your pension is double mine? I'll get just under £6k per year + state pension.

You are not, entirely agree. However, which MP is going to put forward a proposal to cut their own pension pot 🤣 A recent review of pensions in my field shows civil servants getting 32% pension 😱 It's just ridiculous and cannot be justified.

There’s a massive pay gap between the private and public sector.
there are no final salary schemes the only difference is the employer puts a lot more in - almost 30% in my case but it’s 30% of a small number

This 👆 people in public sector jobs (NHS, Teaching etc) would earn considerably more in the private sector. Speaking as a Clinical Psychologist (retired), when I was in one of the highest positions, I could easily have earned 6/7 times as much in the private sector.

Also, there are no new final salary schemes. Anyone employed in the NHS from 1995 hasn’t been employed with one. I expect the end date was similar in other public sector organisations.

A final salarly scheme never meant getting the final salary as a pension. The pension was a percentage of the final salary and no where near it!

Majority proportion of civil servants are on minimum wage now

But whilst you have only had minor salary increases much of the public sector (civil service and LG particularly) had no increase between 2008-2019 and progression in increments is no longer a thing. So whilst you have had 2% pay rises over 10 years (20%ish) increase some of us continued to be on the same pay as when we started so actually lost money.

I would earn £10-20,000 more in private sector but for me that would be contrary to why I went into my chosen profession, I value the work life balance and the holiday and pension scheme mean that I have more flexibility now and in later life.

Grow up ... why should NHS workers have there pensions attacked yet again and be punished because the greedy private companies slashed theres to make more profits.
why is the answer always a race to the bottom ? Shouldn't it be that all workers public or private deserve a decent pension after working all of their lives.

Don't be ridiculous, could you manage on £11,500 a year because that's all some pensioners get. You know the ones you think are loaded. They have paid in for over 35 years to get that. The ones on PC haven't paid in but get topped up anyway to just short of full pension then get given the WFA so end up with more than the ones that paid in for over 35 years.

yup.
my relative's 'final salary pension' is a percentage of nmw. salary is made up of different elements. the base element, on which the pension is based, is nmw.

I'm a nurse and would have quit long ago if it wasn't for my decent 1995 NHS pension I can claim most of at 55.

If you cut pensions, you'll have to actually pay almost close to market rate... That's going to be a lot more expensive!

I have over 33 years NHS experience. I developed CFS/ME which was attributable in large part to burn out at work. I had to step down and go part time for over 15 years and then left 10 years prior to state pension because my health was deteriorating with continued work stress. My pension is a fraction of what it should have been if I had worked FT at the grade I was on when I became unwell.

There are many, many diligent, committed people whose health and pensions have been undermined by the public sector work environment so forgive me if I don't Immediately warm to your proposal.

How can it be tax payers money per se when public sector workers contribute 14% of salary and employer also makes a contribution? The money paid in is reported to cover cost of paying existing pensioners.
If you feel you’re losing out, I suggest you join the public sector of which many of these professions are in great demand.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from but DH and I are both public sector and we were on pay freezes for 11 of the last 15 years and then in the last 4 years we have had yearly non-consolidated raises of 1-2%. Far far lower than private sector, and our wages are now about 50% of the equivalent roles in the private sector. So, no, public sector jobs are not paid equally to private sector, but also, I don’t know anyone on a final salary pension anymore apart from my brother who is in the private sector! We don’t even get a more generous annual leave policy anymore as I have been applying for other jobs and noticed that my 30 days pro rata is now the norm in private sector jobs too. The only thing that IS still keeping me in the public sector is the flexible working and also to some degree the sick leave allowance as I have a long term health condition that requires regular chemotherapy so I do have to take some time off sick every few months following treatment.

Goodness me, if I had a pound for every time someone told me they stay [in teaching] for the pension and the holidays (often for childcare purposes).

I think it would be a disaster for recruitment and more so retention in teaching.

You sound like you believe public sector employees should work for free to save us money. If you want doctors, ruses, teachers, police, refuse collectors etc, please accept that they have to be paid for just like employees in any sector.

Yes, I've heard this often in teaching. Any job where burnout is more likely will naturally have a workforce consisting of many who cannot wait to retire. It's often said among teachers that we wish our lives away counting down the weeks until the next school holiday. If workload doesn't improve, I'll sure I'll be counting down the years left until retirement too.

Snag is that there appears to be no
measure of productivity in the public sector. Such as in planning, statutory targets are missed by a mile. Moreover, workers talk of their ‘to do’ lists as though they are a sign of how busy they are. When I worked in the private sector (with a money purchase pension) we hadn’t time for a ‘to do’ list because we had the work to do.
And now they want to work a four day week maintaining present (abysmal) productivity levels, so, apart from the routine POETS day exodus from County Hall, we all now really do know that they’ve been slacking all week.

This is a debate about nothing as you have your facts wrong OP @Monwmum I work in the public sector, know many others who do and final salary pensions were scrapped YEARS ago. Where are you getting your intel from?? 😂

You are unreasonable. I’m an experienced honours degree educated nurse, and I’ve been putting into my nhs pension since I was 20. I’ve put my blood, sweat and tears into my career. Sometimes at the expense of my mental health. I didn’t get into nursing for money, and we haven’t had a pay rise in line with inflation for over a decade so please can I collect my pension at 69 or whenever I’m allowed. Thanks so much.

Really ask the pensioners that have lost it is hat do need it that!

Absolutely, for example the pension fund I’m in has performed so well recently the employer contribution is reduced from about 19% to 7% for 2 years but we don’t see any of that it goes as a saving.

I’ve been in public sector for 13 years, got two degrees, I’m still on less than 30k and my salary based on inflation should be 20% higher than what it is but due to 4 years of pay freeze or 1-2% increases it’s technically gone backwards. My pension contribution is 6.5%, my pension is career average, not final salary. Trust me we don’t slave away in low pay jobs on unsocial hours for the pension. I’m yet to work out why it is most people stay