To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

[Monwmum]

I'm probably going to be slated for even suggesting it....but in the private sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s because they are a money pit and unsustainable. They were continued in the public sector as a sweetener because (apparently) public sector jobs were lower paid.

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely. However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%.

Quite a difference! Am I being unreasonable to say this would be a good place to start saving some of our tax money? And before people start saying there would be outrage just remember this was done to every private sector employee in the early 2000s so it can be done.

I've posted on here before about my neighbours, all of whom are ex public sector and all of who retired at 57 years old max - that's 10 years earlier than state retirement age.
As none of them have retired for medical reasons and all of them have pretty much the same standard of living as they did before, I can only presume they have generous pensions.
I think it's a disgrace tbh

Monwmum · Today 11:22

I'm not advocating a race to the bottom but this is tax payers money being used ....we seem to lose sight of that? At a time when pensioners have had the winter fuel payment removed should public sector pensions really be more than double those of the private sector?.

No, it's not always tax payers money. We put in 14% of our salaries to fund the current pensioners pots. Hth

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely. However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%.

What regular inflation based pay rises were they? I must have been misreading my payslip and bank statement for 10 years...
I got 0.5-1% "inflation" payrise from about 2008-2018, and the final salary part of my pension stopped in 2014.

Depends on whether you want anybody actually working in those public sector posts or not - wages are already so low that people were striking last year. The pension is practically the only thing keeping a lot of us here.

Speaking for myself, if my pension is cut, I’m moving straight back to Canada, where my salary will be triple what I am earning now, in a far less dysfunctional healthcare system. I am deadly serious, I would start putting applications in the same day it was announced and I’d be off. Many of my colleagues feel similarly. Lots of us have worked overseas and would have no trouble finding a job. There is no goodwill left after ten years of pay freezes and a pandemic.

Public sector workers don't get bonuses. Most don't get Christmas parties (that are funded). Heck, loads literally don't even get tea bags.

Let alone no company cars, private health insurance or even competitive salaries.

The pension is literally what keeps people in the roles that you and everyone else needs most.

Absolutely they deserve the pension and public services would suffer greatly without them.

Yes, because of course everyone in the private sector gets all those things 🙄

The pensions they have are not the same ones that are offered today. For example, the civil service pension used to be final salary and now it’s career average, it’s also now tied to the state pension age so you get it from whenever that is. For anyone under 45-50ish that’s 68.

No way! Pensions have already been downgraded. The public sector pay freeze has eroded my wage by over 20%! Changes to pensions would be incredibly unfair.

@katypp the legal work at a large local authority is in no way comparable to a small firm conveyancer. Multi million pound commercial contracts, large scale projects. The lawyers on other side are senior or partners with high charge out rates. Lots of public scrutiny and potential for judicial review/appeals. Staff also managing teams of junior unqualified staff but pay not reflecting this. The paralegals who do work similar to domestic conveyancing get paid £13.50 hr gross.

Op, I am a child protection social worker of nearly 20 years. I think my reply to your original post has already been covered and to your credit, you acknowledged a while back the responses to your post had made you see things differently. My job does not really exist in the private sector, but other social work roles do in independent agencies. I feel very strongly about private agencies profiting from our most vulnerable young people but the care system has basically been privitised by stealth to the extent that the companies that accommodate our most vulnerable young children make such huge profits. They are incredibly attractive to investors and there has recently been aome media attention around thisnissue. Staff in these homes will not be earning much but it is not uncommon for a placement to cost upwards of £10 000 a week and then 'therapy and in house schooling' is added on top.

Local authorities have a statutory obligation to fund these placements. My LA is having to make cuts of nearly 200 million over the next 5 years on top of the shit show that was the Tory austerity policy over the last 14 years. We have more people in need due to poverty, early help services have had to be slashed (remember Sure Start), less staff doing more with no money. Kinship placements are not properly supported due to lack of money so break down, at which point the young person is so dysregulated finding a placement is almost impossible. We are competing with every other LA meaning providers can basically name their price. I could go on, but basically the money saving measures of austerity have caused a perfect storm and tax payers are funding it.

No service exists within a vacuum. Education, CAMHS, SENSAP, etc housing are all in the same place and meetings are increasingly about who funds provisions to protect tiny budgets and not about the interests of the child and their family.

So if you want to explore and get angry about a waste of tax payers money then this would be my focus. A lack of investment in statutory services and LAs having to fund this from unrealistic and depleted budgets impacts on us all. I think most reasonable people agree these services have to be paid for so we have a functioning society which benefits everyone. The probelm is people are not seeing value for money and this is not because of public sector wages or pensions.

Honestly, if I took back the time I am currently owed (no overtime payments in the public sector) I could probably retire at 60 rather than 67. Most public services have been running on good will for over a decade which is why there were strikes at the end of the last government's term. This cost the economy megabucks but the Tory's loved to paint public sector workers as villains whilst they had pay rises we could only dream of, a heavily subsidied bar and restaurants in the HOC and can claim expenses. it is depressing that so many peopel bought into their retoric.

In contrast, as a cost cutting measure, tea and coffee is no longer available during training sessions and meetings in my LA and away days have to take place yearly for teams but have had a budget of £0 for over a decade. Pretty sure the same could be said for adult services. In contrast, MPs have had huge wage increases during this time (which I am not necessarily against. There are many back bench MPs who do amazing work for their constituents and do not have second jobs, take backhanders from their wealthy mates). Having a subsidied bar and restaurants and being able to claim expenses, parking and chauffeurs, travel 1st class by rail etc just seems so out of touch in contrast to the rest of the public sector. Undertaking our jobs and the costs involved of having to travel (essential car users often now non-existentent, travel to a placement over 200 miles away and back within a day so no accomodation costs or food allowance) is a stark contrast.

Caseloads make taking time back impossible and I can no longer expenses taking a young person out for an ice cream etc so most social workers just fund this themselves. This is before they leave, retention is a huge. Amazing young social workers are not supported so they leave. Whilst I love my job I would not encourage my DC to enter the profession, or work in the public sector.

You do realise public sector workers pay into their pension? I was paying 15% into mine

Because public sector pensions are paid for by the tax payer.

Yep, I can. DH is an IT strategist (advises companies on changes to make to their online banking systems, car onboard computers, etc). Works for a media agency, earns £95k.

His former boss does the exact same job, but has jumped ship to the Department of Justice (explicitly for the pension and job security as she is in her 50s and ageism is a real problem for women in IT). Earns £65k, so took a big pay cut.

And exactly how do you think they would be affected by "slashing public sector pensions"?

As others have said, those pensions no longer exist, and those who had access to final salary pensions with a lower retirement age for any part of their earlier career make up a smaller and smaller part of the workforce.

@Katypp

One of the biggest game changers for most people financially is repaying your mortgage
My pension will be significantly less than my salary, however as I'm no longer forking out £800 a month for mortgage, I imagine my standard of living will pretty much stay the same, if not be better.
I imagine your neighbours have paid their mortgages off.

Posts like these baffle me. Yes it’s public money. But good luck getting anything done without civil servants. They help the country function, all the while being endlessly criticised for poor service which is only a direct result of departments being underfunded. Sure go ahead, take the pension, keep paying them peanuts. Then stop moaning that they don’t have enough staff to process your passport applications or benefit applications. For goodness sake.

No they are not.
Local authority pensions are funded by the employees.

And you would also think it was a free handout of ‘taxpayer's money’ not wages for doing a job! Some people seem to think public sector workers should do it for the love of the job! Maybe the govt should provide dormitories for us all to sleep in & provide food then they won’t have to waste taxpayers money on paying us wages 🙄🙄

Hi - so I’m a local government solicitor. I also have managerial responsibilities. I earn less than £50k.

I qualified nearly 20 years ago on a salary of £37.5k. I worked in the private sector for a few years and took a £5k pay cut to move into local government. The people I trained with who have stayed in law earn around £100k. I have been offered £105k to move back into private practice in the same city.

I stay because I enjoy making a difference and until recently, the work life balance made it worthwhile. The pension is also a factor.

Lawyers, engineers, procurement professionals, communications specialists.

I've seen colleagues in all these professions leave to much more highly paid posts in industry. in one case the salary doubled with a move to private sector.

There may be more general posts where salaries aren't so bad (and people may be more likely to get real living wage rather than national minimum wage etc), but posts which need professional qualifications/chaterships etc the salaries are just nowhere near.

Lower level senior civil service pay is also really low for the level of responsibility and demands placed on people (i dont know what the pay bands look like beyond deputy director level). There's no way I'd consider that bottom end of the senior civil service to be financially viable compared with leaving the public sector- it really is a labour of love/act of service for people who are in these roles.

Where are these “mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector”? 🤨 We wish 😂

Hi @Monwmum
The Local government pension scheme is a ‘funded’ scheme. This means that the scheme aims to achieve solvency, that is, they are required to hold assets to cover the cost of the benefits (liabilities). It is also worth noting that LGPS is funded at local and employer level.
So the taxpayer is not funding it. They are self funded and are contributory pensions.

Government vets. The civil service agency I work for pays vets less than £40k. No surprises we can only recruit newly qualified vets who then go off and double their salaries after a few years. It means we can’t build valuable experience and spend a fortune recruiting and inducting new staff constantly.

Contrary to belief they belong to the people investing in them.
Not the taxpayer nor the government.

Department for Exiting the European Union has closed.
The Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) was a ministerial department from 14 July 2016 to 31 January 2020. It was responsible for overseeing negotiations to leave the EU.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-exiting-the-european-union

So now it is the civil service's fault that the great British public voted for Brexit and the resulting rewriting of laws.