to not get the emphasis on friends in children's TV?

[igglepiggle599]

Not a complaint as such - more a point of curiosity.

Whenever I watch CBeebies or similar with my toddler, I'm always struck by the obsession with friends and how important they are, how they're the most important thing in life, etc. Think Mr. Tumble and the friends song, the song words in various programmes about never being alone when you have friends, the Chuggington stuff about how being with friends is the best thing ever. It's everywhere, and constant. There's always a heartwarming moment at the end of every show where somebody concludes that their friends are the most important thing in their life, or whatever.

I feel like I should be saying how I get what they're trying to do, but...I just don't! It seems like an emphasis that really rubs the joy of friendship in the faces of all the children in the world who struggle to make friends, whether because of disability, not having been taught appropriate social skills, being isolated, introverted, academically ahead or behind, or simply because they have an unusual personality.

Surely it would be more constructive to put the emphasis on being kind and accepting? These are positive character traits that most parents want their children to have (and traits they would wish their children's peers to have). The concept of 'friends' is more of a social label/position that doesn't really say anything inherent about desired behaviour.

Don't suppose anybody can shine any light on this?

I agree with you

I know friends are important but sometimes it's hard to make friends, especially as a child with asd, like my 5yo

She's not speaking yet and can only play alongside others as opposed to with them

I'm always worrying about it, as she doesn't have any siblings or cousins either 🥺😪

"It would be more constructive to put the emphasis on being kind and accepting"

Isn't that what they're doing with the majority of the story lines anyway? They are kind and because they're kind, they have friends?

I’d never really thought about it before, but you’re right. It sets kids up to expect a level of perfect kindness and empathy that is actually quite rare, even in adult friendships. They can spend a lifetime thinking something is missing and feel very lonely.

Far better to teach them how to disagree well and rub along generally with all sorts of people.

I get what you're saying, but many people who are kind, understanding, accepting, etc. still struggle to have friends due to all the reasons I mentioned. It's as much about personality and the general attitude of a child's peer group as it is about the child's behaviour.

I suppose I think that having friends shouldn't be seen as the be all and end all - we should teach children to aspire to be good people regardless of whether other people choose to recognise their positive traits.

In these programmes the actors/characters are usually overly kind and overly well behaved to over emphasise good behaviours. None of its realistic.

How would you end the episodes? "Sarah and Daniel resolved their dispute calmly, shook hands and went home separately to eat their dinner... next time they saw one another, they waved cordially and played on separate playground equipment, respecting eachothers differences and space." It's never that bland, of course it has to turn any dispute around into a best case scenario of "and they lived happily ever after!"

It doesn't have to be one of the two extremes. And young children typically won't register how 'realistic' something is. That's the problem.

The scenario you suggest as the reason for these plots (e.g. kindness = everyone automatically wants to be your best friend) creates an overly simple cause-and-effect explanation that implies that children who don't have friends are somehow 'unkind' and therefore don't deserve friends anyway. In reality, friendships (including friendships amongst young children) are highly complex and dependent on many things. They can seem almost random and completely arbitrary. That's why I think it's better to focus on character.

Also, to clarify, I don't object to a programme suggesting that kindness can help you make friends (largely because, as you point out, I don't have a great alternative!). I'm querying why there's a constant focus on friends being the most important thing in life.

Friends are very important in life - good quality friendship has a huge impact on happiness in life, I’m sure this has been proven in scientific studies?
Yes some children struggle to make friends but that doesn’t negate the positive impact of having friends, and as parents don’t we all encourage our children to nurture friendships where possible.
Rather than being annoyed at CBeebies I would put the energy into persisting with opportunities for friendship to develop
Im sure we have all seen many posts from people here in Mumsnet lonely and missing the fact that they don’t have friends. It absolutely is important, and I think talking about traits like kindness etc in a vacuum without mentioning friends is not going to be as engaging or relatable to young kids?

I've never thought about this but you make a good point.

I agree with you. Also to be honest adult programmes often elevate friendship too much. II think also everyone knows that happily ever after in romance is often not the whole story but there is not enough acknowledgement that friendships are also up and down and may not be happily ever after. In fact it's better for programs to have the message that there are often different routes to happiness. It could be friends but it also could be family/pets/hobbies or simply being on your own contented. I think elevating friendships often means children and teenagers often think they are missing out on something like having a tight knit circle of friends and could lead to unnecessary disappointment.

Yes, of course. I'm not anti-friendship at all. My issue is with the implied message that friendship is the most important thing in life and the implications for those children who struggle with friendships.

I disagree. At the age of the demographic of CBeebies, so about 2-3yrs, children are ongoing through a rapid and important period of social development.

Just to add I do think friends can be very important as they are people who choose to be with you unlike parents who are kind of are obliged to. But just think their importance is over-emphasized in the media and can lead to a sense of why isn't my life like that.

Yes, I agree and actually understanding that you can disagree with people is okay and you don’t need them to always be your friend.

But isn’t the reason people worry about their children not having friends, is because having them is importance and can lead to a lot of happiness? I’d be so upset if my kids had no friends to play with at school for example. Teaching them how to be kind, take turns, ask questions etc is part of all of that.

Yes, of course, that's exactly my point - teaching good behaviours that are likely to help cultivate friendships is more effective than pedalling the idea that friendships are essential for happiness and self-worth.

Just coming to say thank you because I'd never thought about this and it's given me a lot to ponder, and it's rare to read something completely new! I have no idea whether I agree or not but you've really made me think and see things differently.

I remember 7yo DS sobbing in the lockdowns after watching cartoons like Yu Gi Oh and Pokémon that he didn't have any friends and he dearly wanted a "true friend"

He'd had friends at school but was prohibited from meeting them and I didn't know the parents well enough to see who was up for some casual law-breaking. Social gaps grew between children permitted to go to school and those who were excluded for lengthy periods. It took a long time to get his social confidence back to where it had been.

In children's TV, there's a lot of "small world" social skills and modelling and friends are part of that. By showing friendships, the interpersonal skills are explored. In older children's and adult media, friends make plots more dynamic and help explore different aspects of character.

Cast Away was a brilliant film, but Wilson didn't say much back, and it would be a tad dull if it was common to have plots of lone characters with no dialogue opportunities!

I agree with you.

My son is 8, he has friends at school. But most of them live a short car ride away. He wants the "running in and out of each others houses" friendships that he sees on tv. And sleepovers (which I don't allow. Not yet, anyway).

He definitely seems to think "if you're nice, you'll have friends" as it's the message he's seen on tv. But I think he is quite young / innocent for 8. Some other boys his age are much more street smart and they will sometimes laugh at him for being "babyish". And he doesn't know how to respond or deal with that,

I was going to say this is the most unique topic I have seen in a long time on MN!

I don't object to the portrayal of friendships on TV, but that's an interesting point! I bet the portrayal of (functional) friendships and the social situations around them was really beneficial for children during lockdown.

Yeah this is true x

But the point of Mr Tumble is that we can all be friends even when some of those friends or even when you yourself are differently abled in some way. The whole point is that friendship is not out of reach for these kids. We're all friends is a lovely message in this context and a necessary one to help against ableism.

DS has ASD and struggles a bit to engage with other kids, so I think it's helpful for him to see interactions modelled which he can learn from. Though tbh he prefers stuff he learns from like Messy Goes to Okido or Horrible Histories.

You make an excellent point here, OP.
Thank you.

Yes, that's very true, and it's a great message. I guess I just feel sorry for the kids for whom that ideal doesn't play out in real life!