What do we think of the 4B movement?

[JFDIYOLO]

It originated in South Korea out of the #metoo movement.

4 B comes from the Korean 'bi' meaning NO, followed by four things; no heterosexual dating, sex or marriage, and no childbirth.

It's intended to highlight and turn away from sex inequality.

It's currently being talked about a lot in the USA...

I wonder what the effect might be if this took off?

More women in female communities, maybe non religious convent type communities?

Probably an increasing rise in incel behaviour and assaults?

Also a knock on effect on dating aps, bars, clubs and their income?

What else?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/4b-movement-trump-election-win-south-korea-b2643558.html

Big plastic earrings were popular in the 80s, there has been loom bands and fidget spinners now this, it will fizzle out by people who buy the next new air fryer

The problem with women achieving equality in America is that America puts capitalism at the forefront which means that the vast majority of primarily female oriented roles are completely devalued because they don’t generate money.

And whilst it is important to ensure that women have the same access to the same jobs and opportunities that men have it is also just as important to ensure that we value caring roles and lower paid roles in society.

It's currently being talked about a lot in the USA...

(points to username)

No, it’s not. It’s being talked a lot in US media, but this isn’t widespread at all and most people have never heard of it.

If everyone did this we’d eventually die out as a human race of course
but for here in the UK
in the near future with such a small land mass we’d run out of space for housing.
Obviously death to all humans is a bit more serious 🥴

I believe she meant that (sadly) what women “do” or “don’t do” (as according to incels) is always going to be cited as the reason for bad men’s hideous behaviour, not that women are at fault

I think the situation in South Korea is pretty bad for women, it’s a highly patriarchal society so I don’t blame women for not having it. Many reject beauty standards as well. I imagine there are women who don’t identify as being 4b but quietly just avoid having much to do with men if they can help it.

User37, yes I def get that impression. I sometimes look at the reddit on everyday misandry. Sometimes the points are valid, but a lot of them miss... A glaring example was a post decaying the 'crazy misandry' in South Korea, w no indication anyone was aware of the ugly misogyny it developed in response to.

If I was in a red state in America I'd be taking it up. Not out of any kind of spite but simply for saftey.

It's bonkers to be having sex somewhere that if your birth control fails and you get pregnant, you have to keep it.

Absolutely not. No way.
I like men... but not enough for that bullshit.

I suppose you could continue everything except piv sex but realistically, it's probably wise to take no risks and abstain from dating altogether.

I don't see how any woman wouldn't support women in these places (arguably even in the USA as a whole right now) taking those precautions.

Realistically I don't think many will do it. But good on those that do.

Pregnancy is now very dangerous for women in some areas of the US, particularly poorer women in those areas who cannot quickly travel elsewhere for care.

There were some gay men interviewing some “your body my choice types”, funnily enough when the gay guys told them they believed in “your body, my choice” they were suddenly very anti it. Shock horror. Quite a few gay tiktokers have been making “your body my choice videos” when you click on the enraged commenters profiles they’re need all US based guys who are pro trump.

It's a load of nonsense promoted by a few nutcase type folk. Like the surrendered wife. Makes good headlines so money for journalists.

I’m all for it!

It strikes me as fascinating that women are fighting tooth and nail for the right to be used as a hole.

Conservatives are delighted about the 4B movement, it's what they wanted all along. And the women who would subscribe to this movement were never looking for marriage or a nuclear family anyway, its a loss for limbic capitalism and a gain for our shared humanity.

There have been many times over the years when I’ve joked with my female friends that we should set up a commune that’s just us and our kids, while bussing men in and out when we fancy sex 😂

Obviously very tongue in cheek but I think there is something to be said for the shared experiences of many women who are just worn down by the mental load, holding the overarching responsibility, and the general inequality.

I love my DP very much but would my life have been easier in a commune of women? Probably, yes.

If anything happened to DP, I’m not sure that I could be arsed dating again.

I completely sympathise with any woman who decides to opt out of the patriarchal society, and all the incel shit that’s on the rise. I know 4B isn’t exactly what I’m describing but done in the right way, I could imagine there’s a lot of happiness in that way of life.

It’s already happening and has been for years, it’s just now got a catchy name and a label now. It’s huge amongst Asian girls and taking off in Japan.

I think what you would find, is not the death of humankind, but forced change. Eventually the government would have to respond. Capitalism would have to respond. The last action in a failed negotiation is to walk away….nothing else has worked. This is all that is left. Know your worth speaks loudly.

Let's not mistake the outpourings of angry and/or hysterical tiktok video creators for reality. Saying that, I suspect not many are actually hysterical but rather calculatingly faking it for clout, clicks and cold hard cash. I've no doubt that women have legitimate concerns but the media is stoking a frenzy of fear that has little relation to the realities of what is possible. The sore winners are not fucking helping either. Right wing trash with their signs saying "your body, my choice" and other such shit are fuelling it further now. They no more know what Trump will actually do or be stopped from doing than any Harris supporter having a very self-publicised viral video seeking meltdown. The extremists are currently feeding off each other and the only commonality is people competing for the viral cash prize to fall in their favour.

I give you the example of the woman in a pink wig and glasses who went viral. She was holding bits of the wig in the air and waving hair clippers several inches from her head while pretending to cry and loudly whimpering, "why is this not working". The answer is because you can't shave your head through a fucking wig, especially if you're trying to not let the clippers touch it.

So many fucking fakers and users taking advantage of women's real fears.

So you can’t blame real women for stepping out of the fray, and choosing something else.

Aren't the huge cultural differences the main motivation for some women aligning themselves with the principles of this movement patriarchal masculinism that does not dominate the culture of many European countries in the same way as the US now, which is presumably why there is a heightened interest.

Should be no 'that' in the above sentence.

It's probably the same as the MGTOW movement by men, only for women this time. Anyone can do what they want to do , be they men or women.

The popularity of these movements revolve only around online discourse though. Irl people are actually just living it quietly but not as radically or they're not doing anything about it at all.

I agree. It's in the lineage of "political lesbianism" - not especially useful if you're not an actual lesbian, but an extreme and eye-catching manifesto that at its heart reminds women that they don't actually NEED to centre their lives around finding men and raising families.

Ideally, any man with misogynistic tendencies should find them an immediate obstacle to having sex with women. That's not realistic, unfortunately, but the more that penny drops for more women the better.

I'm hopeful that more women will think that maybe they don't want to go full 4B but if it's in their power to prevent men who hate them from feeling pleasure, they should use it.

Takes a strong woman to de-center men like this.
Most women don’t have this level of resilience.

Good for those who actually do this.

If it takes off, even in small numbers, it won’t be long until the movement gets watered-down.
Most women can’t live without male attention, so they’ll hook-up or get in a relationship / knocked up and start the usual ”Not my Nigel / Nigel.Jr, they’re special”.
And no movement loses it’s point.

Actually it's rocketed off in South Korea.

Sounds ridiculous. And I'm a lesbian with no children.

Why would you deny other women meaningful relationships? Are you supposing the market becomes crowded or another reason?