Private Schools- hear me out before you judge!

[Silverbook]

I'm a state school teacher in Scotland. Class sizes are - 25 for P1, 30 for P2-3 and 33 for P4-7. I currently have a class size of 25, most classes in the school are 25-28. Relatively small town- 2 primaries, 1 independent and 1 secondary. The next nearest independent is 45 mins away.

The local independent school is closing due to VAT, the pupils are largely coming here. This is pushing all our class sizes up. No extra funding or staff, obviously. My issue with independent schools closing is that is directly impacting the state sector and no extra funding, resources or infrastructure is in place to support it.

Yes, our classes are still within legal limits but it will always be the most disadvantaged children/those with greater need of support who are impacted most by larger class sizes as there is just less time to spend with them.

I really feel this has been a poorly thought through and knee jerk policy. Surely you invest and create capacity in existing resources before increasing pupil numbers?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is made up. I mean it's not that it couldn't happen, it's just that I don't think it has happened as described.

I understand that private school parents are furious - none of us likes having our money taken! I'm still fuming about a parking ticket I got this week. But I would have more respect if they just said "I'm pissed off and I don't want to pay more and I don't want to put my children in state schools because believe they are shit". Instead of trying to get everyone else on board (and I sympathise anyway!) by suggesting private schools will close left right and centre, and state schools will be swamped, and all the good people will leave the country, and the ones who suffer most will be the neediest children in the overcrowded state schools. Won't somebody please think about the neediest children!

We all know it is not about that. Just say it. "We don't want to pay more tax! We don't think the rest of you are sympathetic enough!"

But we don't disagree. Paying tax is shit - let's all hold hands and sing it together.

We all know Edinburgh isn't typical of Scotland as a whole.

Yes, many parents volunteer in various ways at state schools.

😁 🎵 Paying tax is shit!! 💩 🎶

What?
Children already at state schools are just as much 'victims'.

It’s an article from the Guardian so it reads like it was written by a 14 year old for 14 year olds.

Post election Labour moved the date for VAT to be added from Sept 2025 to January 2025, meaning that parents would not have time to move schools, as it was already the summer term.
Therefore, we won’t know the impact in the first year until the deadline for acceptance for secondary school places has passed; deadline to accept private school places has passed; parents hand in notices to the private schools (usually one term notice) - so probably not until Easter at the earliest and even then there may still be more movement.

It's a real shame you think that.
93% of kids are not in private schools and at least some of those are getting a good education, my own kids included.

”I'm pissed off and I don't want to pay more and I don't want to put my children in state schools because believe they are shit".

I’ll bite,

“I’m not paying any more f*cking tax when my household pays loads, and we pay for our own schooling and healthcare. Despite this, I’m getting whinged at by people who say we should pay more. So, NO. Fuck u lot, I’m taking my share of the pie”.

And breathe….

The 2 state 6th forms we are looking at are not shit though, so not going to say that.

There you go! Don't you feel better?

And also, yes! Lots of state schools are actually pretty good!

Over 20000 left this term + predicted a further 40000 by July PLUS the % who changed their mind after July and didn't start or won't start in Sept 25

Indeed@AngsanaFlower I pay fuckloads of tax. We are top 10% of income. And am slightly tired of being told we are just rich bastards with the 'broadest shoulders' so should pay more and more and more.

I'd like to think someone, somewhere would say 'thanks for being a net contributor'.
Anyway, fuck it. I'm out. My family is out. I refuse to engage any more or pay anymore and we are off.

Thats more than 10% of the Indi population ( plus of course those who won’t start )
That’s three times Labours predictions when they spoke of this policy before the election. ( they didn’t actually ask schools or parents though )

The ISC stated nearer this figure. They did survey the schools.

Only 12% are net providers and that figure really needs to increase if the country, nhs, schools, everything is to function on even a minimal level.

I completely get where you are coming from.
I ll pay what I have to but I’m sick of the hate.

It will be fairer because those that wish to pay for education will be paying vat like other services. We then use our taxes to fund public services.
Fee paying schools have always shed children with additional needs into the state system so those joining are unlikely to come with high needs.

55600 is 10% of the population in Indy schools
Yes that's now the predicted %
At 10% that will bring in net £0 for the Treasury

Exactly right. So much hyperbole.

Wow

0%. Well Labour aren’t known for being any good at maths and this is yet another example.

Labour said the ISC were using scaremongering tactics when they predicted that 10% …. Clearly not so

Anyone with half a brain could foresee this happening. The reality is that private school and private health care takes pressure off the state systems.

I will never, ever afford private school for my child, but I'm sick of the jealousy of people that can. The sooner people accept that life isn't fair and turn their efforts towards how they can improve their own lot, rather than sabotaging other people's, the better!

On another MN there a lot of people would be so happy for OP’s opportunity to be on the front lines of reducing inequality.
Those private school kids enriching your school and not making “connections”. And the “more teachers” and “fixing crumbling” school £££ will be pouring in to your school.

OP makes same ££ regardless of class size, so that’s great too.
Now these new kids will try to take Uni places from kids who never had private school … make sure you don’t let that happen!

The IFS report that Labour have used to base this shower of shit policy on was compiled by Luke Sibieta.
Luke is Matthew Pennycook’s best mate who is a Labour MP and was a key player in the implementation of the proposal.
It’s a report that didn’t accurately account for anything, especially the retrospective reclaim of VAT for projects etc.

No VAT on university fees? Or tutors? Or many other services?
selling it in the finances was ridiculous as there was no consideration of the actual picture and it was obvious to many it wouldn’t yield what was proposed, another Brexit!

We had flagged all of this 18 months ago yet were told we were lying/exaggerating.
Labour refused to engage with the sector because they knew the numbers didn't add up.

‘ How will these new kids take uni places away from kids who never had private education.’
I don’t see how Uni entry will change like this

Yes I remember the MN threads saying none of this would happen
Not that many kids would leave.
They deserve it…..nice😳

The ISC are lying.

Only 8% of Starmer cabinet private school educated …. Which might explain a few things