Private Schools- hear me out before you judge!

[Silverbook]

I'm a state school teacher in Scotland. Class sizes are - 25 for P1, 30 for P2-3 and 33 for P4-7. I currently have a class size of 25, most classes in the school are 25-28. Relatively small town- 2 primaries, 1 independent and 1 secondary. The next nearest independent is 45 mins away.

The local independent school is closing due to VAT, the pupils are largely coming here. This is pushing all our class sizes up. No extra funding or staff, obviously. My issue with independent schools closing is that is directly impacting the state sector and no extra funding, resources or infrastructure is in place to support it.

Yes, our classes are still within legal limits but it will always be the most disadvantaged children/those with greater need of support who are impacted most by larger class sizes as there is just less time to spend with them.

I really feel this has been a poorly thought through and knee jerk policy. Surely you invest and create capacity in existing resources before increasing pupil numbers?

It's the IFS who "ommitted" certain key elements however they have now put on record not to expect the policy to bring in any money 🙄
The ISC represent Indy schools and in their survey of schools + parents they gave the 10% which was jeered at by many on here. Looks like they had it exactly right.

I think it’s a good move, but I have never thought fee paying schools should be VAT free or have charity status. It’s a better policy for our country I think.

@Ohthatsabitshit quote above this post is rubbish. Fee paying schools don't accept children with additional needs? Our school has a full 27% of children with SEN. Like I said earlier, I am also an exam invigilator for the school as well as a parent in the school with SEN and LDs. I really know what I am talking about. Some fucking joker when this was first starting to be discussed on Mn said 'Oh just get an EHCP that names the school as the right school and you won't have to pay VAT... I cant believe you have not done that already'. What a profoundly stupid comment. Very very many of us put our kids in an indy because they provide for their needs. Mine has been in the same school since the age of 4. I did not need to burden the LA with mucking around with applying for an EHCP because we sorted it all out ourselves on our own dime. We have done pretty much everything privately because we are fully aware of the pressure on state finances and can pay for it ourselves. I have a cousin who is very scathing about us going private but she and her DH strategically moved house to a better catchment area, yet we are the immoral ones for being honest enough to pay?

Exactly.

and in fact it’s clearly higher than that 10% already and that doesn’t even include those that won’t ‘join up’ .

Labour should have asked those experienced in this area,but instead, they asked a mate.( as you say in pp, I didn’t know that ) Why? Because anyone with actual knowledge and experience won’t fudge the figures …. unlike mates

They’re all the same
Blatant lies to the electorate

Well if that’s true then campaign to make your school funding system more equitable.

It’s highly unlikely that a child in an independent school that has significant SEN doesn’t have all the reports etc necessary so they won’t arrive at state school needing to join the queue for EP etc. Many are shed from private schools and most local schools know this. The change in fees will not have changed that. Adjustments are always stretching but this should resolve in time. I think it’s an excellent development.

Then when this exclusive catchment catches attention, like when sr politicians kids attend … admissions gets social engineered by council to make sure it looks “right”. Just the right % on free school meals, just the right amount of diversity ….

Just not one that’s going to make any money.

I doubt that VAT is the reason the school closed, there will have been something wrong with their business plan if they can’t even last one term with it being added.

your area is most likely unlucky and it would have happened in any case.

You are joking about the reports … right? Local SEN will make wait for an assessment, refuse private assessments and put them at back of the queue.

Luke [Sibieta] is Matthew Pennycook’s best mate who is a Labour MP and was a key player in the implementation of the proposal.

Thats quite a stretch.

Pennycook is the minister for the department that will oversee the removal
of business rates relief, and not the VAT proposal. The Scottish Government removed business rates relief from independent schools a few years ago, nothing to do with Sibieta or Pennycook.

You can’t base policies on your personal opinion. Which is gained from where? Are there any facts to actually back this up? If the school is providing for needs they don’t need reports. The whole point is that people choose a school with small classes, more funding for pastoral, more understanding over absence, more specialist teachers so they don’t need reports and diagnoses. Those become needed when those things aren’t available. Private schools also aren’t generally keen on EHCPs. LAs will generally not fund mainstream private, they also generally aren’t allowed half and half funding with parents paying fees. I believe this is labours problem as well they’ve not considered the actual implications because they don’t understand peoples’ actual lives

And Luke was his best man. They lived together at one point

Do you then think that this should be extended to all extracurricular activities and tuition? Swimming lessons, music lessons, drama clubs etc….

And the whole point is that the change in fees will change the affordability and balance of benefits for parents, and also the schools when pupils start leaving. The other option is obviously to fight the legal route for what the child is actually entitled to rather than taking the easier option of funding fees

My daughter went to a private sen secondary school paid for by her ehc. Most parents couldn't self fund this school - the fees are enormous, partly due to the on site speech and language therapists, occupational therspists etc. Nearly all the children had ehc plans as a result.

This is a bit different to private schools taking kids with dyslexia for example.

Tbh if your child qualifies for an ehc, it is probably better to be in the state system and get one. The ehc goes up to age 25 and is useful for post 16 education (unless the yp goes to university).

Lots of kids with sen don't need ehc plans of course. Their needs can be met in mainstream state schooling through the sen budget.

Most private schools don't have a sen budget and parents have to fund on top of the fees for anything the school needs. And most private schools won't take on kids with significant additional needs anyway.

So if a child's sen is being catered for at a n ordinary private school, I suspect that the sen is limited tbh.

Oh my goodness. Did they have children together?!

His SEN is mot limited and it is catered for very well by his Indy. He had brain damage thanks to a very badly mismanaged birth and although he is 14 chronologically he is aged about 11 mentally. He has a recorded IQ (two separate tests 12 months apart of 63- and 65. The school deal with him very well and are exceptionally accommodating. Although they have already warned us he is not going to get through GCSEs. The pastoral care is exceptionally good. They are very good at allowing us massive flexibility for him coming in and going home on days he can and cannot cope. The school is costing is £25,000 a year and he is relatively happy and content.

The latter is what we are paying for.

They aren't the ones having to leave their school to go to another one where teachers clearly don't want them

Is your town the only one in the country with no swimmimg pool? and your school the only one in s have a playing field for fixtures and PE and a school hall for productions

That's lucky for you. It's so hit and miss depending what school you end up sending your kids to

Not quite a stretch at all.

order-order.com/2024/10/07/independent-labour-supporting-private-school-report-written-by-ministers-close-friend/

Are you moving country? That's sad

What on earth are you talking about? Private assessments are used routinely by parents when asking for accommodations in school and for attaining an ehcp.