Private Schools- hear me out before you judge!

[Silverbook]

I'm a state school teacher in Scotland. Class sizes are - 25 for P1, 30 for P2-3 and 33 for P4-7. I currently have a class size of 25, most classes in the school are 25-28. Relatively small town- 2 primaries, 1 independent and 1 secondary. The next nearest independent is 45 mins away.

The local independent school is closing due to VAT, the pupils are largely coming here. This is pushing all our class sizes up. No extra funding or staff, obviously. My issue with independent schools closing is that is directly impacting the state sector and no extra funding, resources or infrastructure is in place to support it.

Yes, our classes are still within legal limits but it will always be the most disadvantaged children/those with greater need of support who are impacted most by larger class sizes as there is just less time to spend with them.

I really feel this has been a poorly thought through and knee jerk policy. Surely you invest and create capacity in existing resources before increasing pupil numbers?

So sad to hear that. I hope your children settle into another school smoothly.

The Labour govt said they would bring this policy in for the start of the academic year 2025. They lied. It's now January in the middle of the school year as you say. I believe very very firmly they did this because it is a very great deal more difficult for parents to change schools mid-year and so they are cynically and knowingly trying to skew the figures. 'See, barely any attrition rate from the private sector'.

In our school the school waived the one term's notice and one term's fees and we have lost on average 2 children per class. Already. My closest mum friend who is a solicitor and her DH a GP have taken their children out. The one with SEN will now be homeschooled. She has quit her job to do so. So the government has lost the tax on her salary. The government now has to fund the 2 placements for the two who are going to state. That is one example. One.

Ideologies based on spite tend to be expensive, it turns out.

Are you joking?! Why do you think there is a legal case being brought specific to Scotland? Because simply put, parents can't afford the tax and the impact will be especially strong in Scotland

@Arran2024 Based on what? The private schools in Edinburgh have already seen huge reductions in people applying and all of the state schools are full. I don't doubt parents will struggle through the next couple of years if kids are doing exams. But what happens in the years to come when the already full state schools are expected to take the kids who would have otherwise used private schools?

We're on the same page

Speaking as one such "victim" (admittedly decades back) it was absolutely fine. One school closed, we went to another, both were lovely. Private schools close sometimes - they always have.

@TheYearOfSmallThings where are you getting your information from? In Scotland we're already whacked for tax, more than England, and many parents can't manage yet another tax to pay for a service they don't use. Fees tend to be less in Scotland which is why there are many children in private school. But it doesn't mean the parents have particularly broad shoulders.

IF your child can get a place! 100s of LAs saying 0 spaces. This is 1 example

There have been a lot of news articles re private schools closing.
I would have thought / liked Labour to have analysed the impact this would have on State schools.
I would have thought / liked Labour to have assessed the impact on Indi kids too.

Clearly that is not the case and it seems no one seems to really know whether this will raise any money at all!

My school fees will go up £3400 a year with the VAT rise. I’m taking out my DC, so Labour will not be getting £6,800 off me over 6th form, and instead will be paying around £12k to send me DC to my local 6th form.

Thx Keir

In case this is a genuine question, the existing schools would add extra classes. I live in east London and most of the secondary schools are adding one or two extra classes (eg going from 4 to 6 form entry, or 5 to 7) due to a demographic bulge. Meanwhile primaries are planning for a slight fall in applications in my borough, but a steep fall in other boroughs, where ten years ago they were adding classes. Some state primaries will close where they are no longer needed.

These changes have nothing to do with VAT obviously, those will just be a drop in the ocean. These are demographic changes, which have always had to be planned for.

You credit Labour with too much. They were arrogsnt and refused to engage with the sector, hence why they are heading to court with 3 separate legal challenges

Not sure what you're asking me? I am not suggesting everyone in Edinburgh is a millionaire, just that salaries are higher there than many other areas, hence the higher number of private schools. I doubt that will change.

And in my case I have a child with autism, adhd, tourettes etc.

He is in a lovely indy. We can afford the fees right now, but we are not sure we can absorb the VAT increase, which represents an extra £100 per week for us. Plus the fact the budget hammered us in other ways, so it is not just the VAT increase.

However, I am Australian and my child has dual nationality.

At Christmas time we are going to Australia. The very best private school near where my parents live costs $8600 a year. A year. We have booked a meeting with the principal. The idea is that DS and I will move almost immediately, and DH will shut up shop here, sell the house etc then follow.

The Labour government think that the population are cartoon characters that can be impinged upon without effect. They forget that people have agency. They forget that people are mobile. They forget that people say 'Fuck this for a laugh' and jump.

Fucking morons, they are.

So you see this as "pay back time" eh? The children have nothing to do with your experience.

Interesting thought on Labour attempting to skew the figures …. You certainly could be right there.
Its really quite evil of a Government changing tact in the middle of a school year….I wonder if they would have imposed a cheaper curriculum on the State sector mid year.

I do wonder if Labour were hoping by doing this mid school year more Private school parents would see a way to suck up the fee increase and hence stay on, thus not impacting the State sector so much.

You make the mistake in thinking Labour give a shit about children? They needed it so they got into power. 🤷🏻‍♀️ sorry Op - I’m a private school parent and our school is absorbing some of the VAT, I never thought it was a good idea not because we couldn’t afford it, most, if not all the parents I know can - but the burden on the state schools. I hope you get more funding.

Labour is on a crash and burn trajectory already. Which they deserve with their policies of hate.

Wait till we see the uptick on pensioner deaths due to the cold.

Not sure I believe this post. Only 2 independent schools in Scotland have closed recently. A very, very small Christian school in Greenock and Kilgraston which was in Perth. So not sure how any school could have recently received 84 pupils from either of those as they both closed in the summer and the former didn’t even have 84 pupils!

74% of private schools across the UK are non profit so I think it is a similar situation in England.

@Another76543 Sorry I'm a bit late to the thread (and incidentally not opposed to the introduction of VAT) but just wanted to say that actually Fettes let us use their swimming pool! Don't know if they still do, it's been a while.

Yes it is a policy that is going to cost a lot of money but many people didn’t want to listen to the reality. A lot of children with SEN are moved into private with parents barely able to afford it because their needs are met a bit better there. So even a small amount moved out again will be looking for an EHCP. There’s over 100000 kids with Sen plan but no EHCP in private education. It’s not just VAT being imposed but also business rate and national insurance changes. I think they’ve totally failed to take all costs into account- the cost of alternative schooling and support, the cost of monitoring home education, the cost of the impact of disrupted education, the cost of legal challenges etc. they have a whole cohort of children who are getting a decent education at no cost to the tax payer, many of whom have additional needs. They’ve done it at a time where we are in a ‘cost of living crisis’ (previously kniwn as recession). I’d say the finances should take precedence over everything else at the moment and will effect every single one of us

In the academic year of 22-23 each state school place cost around £8000. So every child that enters the state system will cost at least this, probably more now.

Pupil premium is top up funding for lower income families, looked after children and previously looked after children. It’s to level up the gap in learning due to their disadvantage. (This is what the DofE state),

My DD joined us via adoption, should she have to go back into the state system she will have priority over other children for her place in the school of her or our choice as well as be entitled to the pupil premium which is around £2700 as she’s previously looked after. (Children who are from low income households are not given this level of pupil premium, it’s a lesser amount).
It doesn’t make fiscal sense to me. They’ve not thought it through.
Dd has only been in independent for a year, we were fed up of fighting for her to get any benefit from her pupil premium and fed up of trying to get her needs met. We hope to keep her at her school where she is happy, but the fees are already so much. We don’t know if we’ll be able to afford to keep her there. Especially if our circumstances change.

Even if the state system finally sees anywhere near the revenue that they hope, it amounts to 1 additional teacher for every 3 schools. This is if the funds are raised for the 6,400 teachers promised. As well as them being able to recruit/train and retain these. I can imagine more teachers leaving the profession and it going the other way if they are expected to take the load of the additional students coming into the system. This doesn’t actually fix anything for teachers, children or schools and it doesn’t make sense.

Private schools are businesses. If they don't make money they close. This is not new. Maybe a few more now, but they were probably in trouble anyway.

What about the 93% already in state school? Aren’t there enough parents in that group that care about the quality of state education? Or do only those that use private school care enough about education to make difference?