Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Trump couldn’t be the better option.

141 replies

Friedeggs9876 · 06/11/2024 13:23

Republicans - congratulations on your win today…To Trump supporters and non voters, please help me understand. I’m reaching out from a place of genuine respect and curiosity, and I hope my questions will be taken in this spirit. I’m really interested in hearing about your perspective and understanding the reasons behind your decision to vote for Donald Trump over Kamala Harris in this election. Or perhaps you decided to actively withhold your vote because you couldn’t vote red - in which case I’d be interested to hear your reasons for doing so.

Here are some points I’ve picked up on IG and in the news, and I’d love your insights on these:

  1. U.S. Policy in Gaza

Lots of people seem concerned about the Biden-Harris administration’s approach to the conflict in Gaza, with some believing that Trump would take steps to end what many people view as the awful injustices happening there. I can see how this issue is deeply painful and personal for many people. However, I wonder if the U.S. position might be more influenced by larger financial and diplomatic interests that would remain steady regardless of which party holds power.

  1. Quality of Life Under Different Administrations
  • I’ve also heard that life seemed better for many Americans during Trump’s first term, whereas the Biden-Harris administration has been associated with more economic hardships. To this, I’d suggest that some of the difficulties we’ve faced recently - such as inflation, rising interest rates, and oil prices - might have been influenced by global factors beyond any one administration’s control, such as the pandemic and the war in Ukraine.
  1. Character and legal issues -

I’m curious about voters’ perspectives on Trump’s recent convictions and legal issues, including charges of fraud and sexual assault. How do these issues impact - if at all - your view of him as a candidate? I’m genuinely interested in understanding how his supporters weigh these factors and whether they feel these issues affect his ability to lead.

  1. The environment and project 2025 -

I’d love to hear thoughts from voters on Trump’s environmental policies and, in particular, on the objectives of Project 2025. As I understand it, the project seeks to roll back regulations on climate policies, aiming for increased energy independence and industrial growth. For those who supported Trump, how do you weigh these environmental decisions and the potential impacts on climate change against economic or other policy benefits? This project is also set to have a massively detrimental impact on women’s rights and that of the LGBQT+ community, restricting women’s rights to reproductive health, workplace protections and equality to name a few. As a Trump supporter how do you feel about how these policies might affect your family and loved ones? I’d love to understand how these issues are prioritised among his supporters.

If you’re comfortable sharing, I’d be grateful to hear your thoughts on these or any other reasons that helped guide your decision. My intention here is to listen and learn, not to argue, and I hope this post will open an honest and respectful conversation. Thanks in advance to anyone who chooses to respond!

OP posts:
RamblingEclectic · 08/11/2024 12:33

There were more than two candidates on the ballot and I am still more concerned with how the people in the US will react over the next weeks and months than what the President will do.

As for why some don't vote: a lot of Americans abroad don't vote for moral reasons - why should we get a say in a country some of us have never lived in or left as children and/or haven't lived in decades - and some for legal reasons as technically under US law, a US citizen taking on another citizenship/swearing allegiance to another country can be taken as an act of renunciation as long as we do not then do any US citizen activities like voting or renewing passports - as the US government has not yet fulfilled it's word from last year to drop the renunciation fees to previous levels and increase access to renunciation which became very restricted during lockdowns with little improvement in many places, some who technically can vote choose not to to be able to self-certify not being US persons to financial institutions (who can freeze or close our accounts based on being US citizens, I was threatened with freezing last month unless I gave a bank my US social security number and I'm fortunate, I know others where they're just closed as some financial institutions don't want to deal with trying to comply with US BS). None of the candidates really discussed these issues until after most Americans abroad would have voted - we have to vote well in advanced - and many of us don't trust any of the claims made about it, we'll believe it when we see it, but few governments choose to shrink their power.

My vote counts in an area that used to swing, but is now deep red - a lot who would politically possibly align with Democrats typically just don't vote, some vote smaller parties they feel aligns with them better. There has been a major backlash since Bill Clinton that a lot of Democrat agenda benefits only their strongholds and since W Bush, there has been a shift of Democrats holding those who live outside of their strongholds in strong contempt - there is a growing saying that Republicans view Democrats as foolish, Democrats hold anyone who isn't Democrat as evil. Being counted in a deep red area, my voting Democrat wouldn't really change anything and I've voted tactically once for the Democrats, regretted it, and will never vote tactically again. I'd rather vote for a small party or an independent I agree with their view most and feel like I actually voted for what I think, than vote for a party where every time they fail I think how I voted for that (even more with the Democrats as they brought in the legislation that caused the banks started to freeze and close American accounts).

US Policy in Gaza: I think the US's involvement largely causes more issues and has never really solved anything. The US is notorious for backing totalitarianism when it suits them, who is power hasn't really changed that. If someone was really pro America supporting Gaza, they'd probably more likely to vote Green - Stein got arrested during a pro-Palestine protest, she is absolutely who to go for if that's a priority topic.

Quality of Life: I can't really speak on this personally as I haven't lived in the US since W Bush and I think this is difficult to quantify in my voting. People being angry about the economy is part of why they moved against the Democrats - much as in the UK there was a move against the Tories. The Democrats were warned it would be a big issue, but there wasn't a significant push from them to treat it as such.

Character and Legal issues - A lot of people where I'm from have the view that pretty much all politicians are involved in the worst - it's openly discussed that a widely believed reason that Trump has gotten as far in politics as he has is blackmail - he was an open friend of Epstein, he knows who else is a less open. If voting on character, I'd still vote for neither Trump or Harris, neither of them have the character I would want in a leader. Trump being worse doesn't mean I'd want to vote for Harris - there were other options, including none of the above.

Project 2025 - Is a Heritage Foundation document. Using it to explain what Trump is going to do is like claiming Harris or any Democrat is just going to do everything the Open Society/George Soros wants - it gets into conspiracy theory territory. I do think both Trump and Harris would have been managed in a particular direction by those in government positions - not thinktanks, government positions that are one of the very few parts of the US with employment protections. I think if we've learned anything from the Biden and previous Trump administrations, it's that presidents are managed behind the scenes a lot, but it's by those in government jobs. If you're concerned about thinktanks, you need to look more at legislatures at all levels, including in the UK.

The Democrats have been dangling codifying reproductive rights since at least the 90s, it was discussed under Bill Clinton. They have a track record of dangling these things every election, but never doing it so they can dangle it again next time. Oliver, Stein, and West had much more solid plans on it compared to Harris and whatever the Heritage Foundation wants, the Republicans have a strong contingent of Constitutionalists - those who think the federal government should only do what's explicitly listed in the constitution and feel that every state being different is the goal - who have taken the Supreme Court decision as their victory. I do think some states already anti-abortion will take the Republican victories as vindication, but I also think if Harris had won that they'd have taken it as a need to double down, and as already mentioned, this is being fought now at state levels, some very well (even very red Ohio when from heartbeat to just under 22 weeks). I do worry on it largely for those who have pregnancies that go wrong, they are at the most risk. There are supports for travel and mailing resources for those who want to end healthy pregnancies, it's those who need hospital intervention asap that are royally fucked -- and sadly, I'm seeing far too many people who call themselves Democrats who are crowing over recent maternal deaths and making 'leopard face eating party' dehumanizing jokes at teenagers dying in anti-abortion states alongside the deaths in the Hurricane Helene floods to trust the Democrats to make it anything other than a political game & put my focus on local level work than expecting this to be sorted federally.

Workplace protections are already shite with at-will employment, the protected characteristics do very little on that, and again, the Democrats don't have a great track record of actually doing anything other than talk there.

I know more than a few people who demographically fall under 'LGBQT+' who voted Trump. They will discuss how Trump hosted a gay wedding at his home, how he's the first president to support marriage equality during his first term (Biden doesn't count because of his decades of history in politics being against it), and similar as evidence that gay, lesbian, bisexual, and gender diverse people will be fine as they were the first time around. I really don't think any party is going to be to make the kind of either saving or apocalyptic things people are spouting. Many of them, and myself, really don't like being discussed as one community, the acronym originated to mark intentional solidarity of groups and activist actions, with recognition that it's people from many communities coming together. I get it for demographic work, but we're not one community and some Democrats acting like we're a hivemind and the only way we can vote is for Democrats is really not playing out well - I mean, the candidate of the Libertarians was a gay man (and their attitude the government should be uninvolved in relationships suits many) and both they and the Greens have been far more supportive historically and some argue currently, so for those where that is their main focus, there were much better options.

Bippy2024 · 08/11/2024 12:52

Right, he's a known quantity. The hysteria is bizarre, frankly, there are Dems all over TikTok and twitter posting vids of themselves sobbing, some of them are posting videos of their terrified children who they've worked up into a frenzy. They sound absolutely deranged.

I always thought the right in America were kind of arseholes, and that Trump Derangement Syndrom was bullshit - but listening to these "i'M lEaViNg cos I didn't get my way" loons at the moment is making me wonder.

I used to vote left like so many who voted for Trump - not that anybody on scumsnet will believe that or they'll pretend not to. I didn't see how fucking nuts the left were when they are told NO - is it a new thing?

Or do the left just not accept democratic votes? They're still yacking on about Brexit too FFS. Meanwhile in Aus, a huge majority said no to a referendum to give Indigenous people more power and the left are still screaming about that too a year later. It's toddler tantrums on a massive scale and it's genuinely frightening.

He won, he's in, that's it, they can cry themselves into the dry heaves, but they're going to have to accept reality at some point. Surely.

TheKeatingFive · 08/11/2024 13:34

He won, he's in, that's it, they can cry themselves into the dry heaves, but they're going to have to accept reality at some point. Surely

Well there are still remainers struggling to accept Brexit 8 years on, so I wouldn't be so sanguine.

username7891 · 08/11/2024 14:02

kirbykirby · 08/11/2024 08:17

How does exporting our emissions to China whilst crushing British industry with punitive taxes and regulations help the climate? We're just creating more pollution by importing everything at huge cost from countries with terrible records whilst our quality of life craters, so that Miliband can pat himself on the back (whilst he claims his heating costs back via expenses).

What are your solutions?

Parker231 · 08/11/2024 16:55

RingoJuice · 07/11/2024 17:09

I voted for Trump via mail-in. Since you seem to have asked out of genuine curiosity:

My biggest issue is illegal immigration. I want immigration to be heavily restricted.

My hometown is close to Springfield Ohio. They dumped 20,000 Haitians in a town of 60,000 and it has been a disaster for locals. I see this (and Charleroi PA, where a town of 4,000 got 2,000 Haitians) and I know 1000% I do not want this for my hometown. Nobody wanted nor voted for this.

I also prefer lower taxes, as I don’t think public institutions are good at spending taxpayer money wisely. I have come to the conclusion that government money in things like higher education has only led to ever increasing costs with no better outcomes.

I am not overly concerned with climate change, as I think adapting via infrastructure is the better way to go. And I think Europe/UK is fucking moronic not to develop a fracking industry. You can see that carbon emissions have dropped along with that uptick in fracking because we’ve switched coal for cleaner gas.

We do not have to compromise our living standards to have cleaner air/water/good infrastructure.

And abortion is no longer a national issue. So the Deep South can wrestle with the question. For the rest of us, we can move onto other issues.

Fact checker on Trump’s comments on Springfield

Migrants in Springfield: Trump repeated his false claim that “they dropped 30,000 illegal migrants” on Springfield, Ohio, saying that while others use “a little technicality” to say these new arrivals from Haiti are not illegal migrants, they are “illegal” in his view.
This is false in more than one way. While we don’t know the immigration status of every Haitian immigrant in Springfield, the community is, on the whole, in the country lawfully. The Springfield city website says, “YES, Haitian immigrants are here legally, under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status (TPS).” Republican Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine wrote in a New York Times op-ed about Springfield in September that the Haitian immigrants “are there legally” and that, as a supporter of Trump and JD Vance, he is “saddened” by the candidates’ disparagement of “the legal migrants living in Springfield.”
Second, nobody “dropped” the immigrants into Springfield; the city’s Haitian residents were not sent there by a government resettlement program. Rather, they independently decided to move to the citybecause of employment opportunities, affordable housing and the presence of a Haitian community, among other factors.
And while there is no official tally of the number of immigrants in Springfield, Trump’s “30,000” figure exceeds local estimates. The website for the city of Springfield says there are an estimated 12,000 to 15,000 immigrants in the county that includes Springfield, where the total population is about 138,000. Chris Cook, the county’s health commissioner, said in July that his team estimated the best number was 10,000 to 12,000 Haitian residents in the county.

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/live/hvIt9NLmBGM?feature=shared&t=1180

commonsense61 · 09/11/2024 10:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

RingoJuice · 10/11/2024 04:15

Parker231 · 08/11/2024 16:55

Fact checker on Trump’s comments on Springfield

Migrants in Springfield: Trump repeated his false claim that “they dropped 30,000 illegal migrants” on Springfield, Ohio, saying that while others use “a little technicality” to say these new arrivals from Haiti are not illegal migrants, they are “illegal” in his view.
This is false in more than one way. While we don’t know the immigration status of every Haitian immigrant in Springfield, the community is, on the whole, in the country lawfully. The Springfield city website says, “YES, Haitian immigrants are here legally, under the Immigration Parole Program. Once here, immigrants are then eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status (TPS).” Republican Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine wrote in a New York Times op-ed about Springfield in September that the Haitian immigrants “are there legally” and that, as a supporter of Trump and JD Vance, he is “saddened” by the candidates’ disparagement of “the legal migrants living in Springfield.”
Second, nobody “dropped” the immigrants into Springfield; the city’s Haitian residents were not sent there by a government resettlement program. Rather, they independently decided to move to the citybecause of employment opportunities, affordable housing and the presence of a Haitian community, among other factors.
And while there is no official tally of the number of immigrants in Springfield, Trump’s “30,000” figure exceeds local estimates. The website for the city of Springfield says there are an estimated 12,000 to 15,000 immigrants in the county that includes Springfield, where the total population is about 138,000. Chris Cook, the county’s health commissioner, said in July that his team estimated the best number was 10,000 to 12,000 Haitian residents in the county.

It is widely believed to be 20,000 but even at 15,000, they are causing problems. First of all, a child had already died—imagine driving a vehicle so fast that when you crash into a school bus HEAD ON, you overturn the bus and a child dies as a result. I don’t think he was even drinking, just driving recklessly.

Another old lady was mowed down just getting her mail in the morning, killed instantly.

There is a shady connection between NGOs, local staffing firms (they are not direct hires but usually part of a staffing agency) and slum lords. It would be great if more reporting was done on this.

What we do know is that these jobs aren’t advertised to the general public but staffing agencies will fill them up with Haitians on their rolls. They do everything for these guys (since none of them will speak English), rent homes to them, apply for government programs on their behalf, which is a giant slap in the face: they not only undercut wages for locals, but taxpayer funds are used to support them further, an incredibly unfair situation.

Keep in mind they’ve only been placed there since the Biden admin.

They are technically legal under TPS but that can be revoked by executive action and I expect Trump to do that on Day One.

Viviennemary · 10/11/2024 04:20

Trump is on the side of ordinary folk. Kamala Harris only cares about her celeb pals and what they think. Not a good look. And thinks the answer to everything is to laugh like a hyena and trash her opponent. That's why she lost.

ByTheSea · 10/11/2024 10:36

Viviennemary · 10/11/2024 04:20

Trump is on the side of ordinary folk. Kamala Harris only cares about her celeb pals and what they think. Not a good look. And thinks the answer to everything is to laugh like a hyena and trash her opponent. That's why she lost.

Trump makes ordinary people think he's on their side, but time will show them that he's all about himself, himself and himself.

SinnerBoy · 10/11/2024 11:06

Keep in mind they’ve only been placed there since the Biden admin.

They haven't been placed there, they are there of their own volition. Most of them have settled status and are not there illegally.

RingoJuice · 10/11/2024 11:21

SinnerBoy · 10/11/2024 11:06

Keep in mind they’ve only been placed there since the Biden admin.

They haven't been placed there, they are there of their own volition. Most of them have settled status and are not there illegally.

How do you think Haitians who do not speak English nor do they have proper licenses, getting to Springfield or even more obscure places like Lockland Ohio? There aren’t even trains or buses that go there. And getting jobs that aren’t even being advertised to the general public?

Obviously they are being contracted by staffing agencies and brought there directly

snurtifier · 10/11/2024 11:46

ByTheSea · 08/11/2024 10:07

Regulation against corporate price gouging was most certainly high on the democrat agenda and inflation under Biden is contained better than anywhere else in the world.

IIRC this being on the Democrat agenda meant that Harris made an off the cuff commitment to introducing price controls on groceries, which if true would have been (a) staggeringly bonkers, and (b) almost certainly illegal.

SinnerBoy · 11/11/2024 07:25

RingoJuice · Yesterday 11:21

How do you think Haitians who do not speak English nor do they have proper licenses, getting to Springfield or even more obscure places like Lockland Ohio?

Why do you think that they don't speak English? Why do you think that they've been dumped there by the Government? Why do you not know that they've moved there to be near long standing residents, their friends and relatives, many of whom have been there for decades?

HRTQueen · 11/11/2024 07:58

Listen to what voters were saying at the polls

the issues were the economy and
secondly immigration

the economy was better under Trump

Illegal immigration is an issue not just in the southern states anymore and an easy target to use when times are tough

the rest of your questions are for people who have an interest in politics the vast majority do not and their concern is I need to pay my bills and put food on the table

This is what Trump got right and unfortunately Democrats got so very wrong

RingoJuice · 11/11/2024 09:40

SinnerBoy · 11/11/2024 07:25

RingoJuice · Yesterday 11:21

How do you think Haitians who do not speak English nor do they have proper licenses, getting to Springfield or even more obscure places like Lockland Ohio?

Why do you think that they don't speak English? Why do you think that they've been dumped there by the Government? Why do you not know that they've moved there to be near long standing residents, their friends and relatives, many of whom have been there for decades?

Springfield did not have Haitians even living there prior to 2020. There were no ‘longstanding residents’ to speak of.

They are not directly hired but typically hired out by temp agencies who take care of their transports and rentals precisely because they do not speak the language.

LilyBartsHatShop · 11/11/2024 13:51

@Newbutoldfather You're right about Ukraine.
If Putin is as much of a threat to Eurpoe as Hitler was stop fannying about and send in your troops. But
providing enough material support to prevent Russia winning the war, but not enough to allow the Ukraine to win, could prolong the war for decades.
It's just plain wrong for Ukraine to lose their independence, but it's actually worse for the country to be a battlefield for years.
What is the worse of two evils? I just don't believe that Biden's approach (and other Western allies-but-not-in-the-sense-that-we're-actually-going-to-fight-alongside-you) is right any more.
Maybe there can be a negotiated peace in which Ukraine has an element of independence?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread