To think Trump couldn’t be the better option.

[Friedeggs9876]

Republicans - congratulations on your win today…To Trump supporters and non voters, please help me understand. I’m reaching out from a place of genuine respect and curiosity, and I hope my questions will be taken in this spirit. I’m really interested in hearing about your perspective and understanding the reasons behind your decision to vote for Donald Trump over Kamala Harris in this election. Or perhaps you decided to actively withhold your vote because you couldn’t vote red - in which case I’d be interested to hear your reasons for doing so.

Here are some points I’ve picked up on IG and in the news, and I’d love your insights on these:

1. U.S. Policy in Gaza

Lots of people seem concerned about the Biden-Harris administration’s approach to the conflict in Gaza, with some believing that Trump would take steps to end what many people view as the awful injustices happening there. I can see how this issue is deeply painful and personal for many people. However, I wonder if the U.S. position might be more influenced by larger financial and diplomatic interests that would remain steady regardless of which party holds power.

1. Quality of Life Under Different Administrations

• I’ve also heard that life seemed better for many Americans during Trump’s first term, whereas the Biden-Harris administration has been associated with more economic hardships. To this, I’d suggest that some of the difficulties we’ve faced recently - such as inflation, rising interest rates, and oil prices - might have been influenced by global factors beyond any one administration’s control, such as the pandemic and the war in Ukraine.

1. Character and legal issues -

I’m curious about voters’ perspectives on Trump’s recent convictions and legal issues, including charges of fraud and sexual assault. How do these issues impact - if at all - your view of him as a candidate? I’m genuinely interested in understanding how his supporters weigh these factors and whether they feel these issues affect his ability to lead.

1. The environment and project 2025 -

I’d love to hear thoughts from voters on Trump’s environmental policies and, in particular, on the objectives of Project 2025. As I understand it, the project seeks to roll back regulations on climate policies, aiming for increased energy independence and industrial growth. For those who supported Trump, how do you weigh these environmental decisions and the potential impacts on climate change against economic or other policy benefits? This project is also set to have a massively detrimental impact on women’s rights and that of the LGBQT+ community, restricting women’s rights to reproductive health, workplace protections and equality to name a few. As a Trump supporter how do you feel about how these policies might affect your family and loved ones? I’d love to understand how these issues are prioritised among his supporters.

If you’re comfortable sharing, I’d be grateful to hear your thoughts on these or any other reasons that helped guide your decision. My intention here is to listen and learn, not to argue, and I hope this post will open an honest and respectful conversation. Thanks in advance to anyone who chooses to respond!

Thank you for copying this. I was trying to decide if I could be arsed to actually talk about why people voted Trump and had good reasons for doing so! This is perfect.

I thought Trump would probably win and wasn't surprised when he did. On another thread someone said that in voter exit polls voters said preserving democracy was the reason they'd voted as they did. The Dems thought that meant they'd win it, but they were wrong, and I can see why.

For many the economy and democracy will be the main issues but for some the totalitarian imposition by the democrats of gender ideology is another reason (and also suggests the Dems aren't too bothered about free speech or democracy if it doesn't align with their opinion). People who voted Trump for this reason won't talk about it (because any deviation from the dem line is wrongthink and can get you fired*, especially in blue states). It's not just that men in women's sports is unsafe and unfair, allowing male rapists in women's jails is inhumane or that sterilising children with 'medical affirmation' that has no evidence base is a total abdication of medical ethics and is harming many children in the US. It's also that anyone who is trying to pass all this off as 'progressive' and stop you talking about it or asking questions (to which of course they don't have valid answers) shows themselves to be deeply untrustworthy. If they claim Lia Thomas is literally a woman and has no advantage swimming against Riley Gaines then why on earth would you take their word on anything else?

Only the middle / chattering classes have the security, safety and time to engage in mind bending cognitive dissonance and convince themselves men can be women whenever they utter the magic words. Working class people generally just can't do it. It's not just about the issue itself (though that's bad enough) it's that people who tell you grass is pink, when you can see it's green and tell you you're a horrific vile bigot if you try and just say 'um, I'm seeing green here?' are not people you want to vote for.

*reduxx.info/exclusive-whistleblower-reveals-trans-identified-male-had-been-admitted-to-womens-rehab-unit-in-massachusetts-and-sexually-harassed-female-patients/

Haha I think if you are very rich the same rules might not possibly apply 😀

Lots of immigrants voted for Trump. See previous post.

On abortion, the time where the president had any say in abortion law was when the presidents were appointing supreme court justices. Right now, there's not a lot that can be done at a federal / presidential level and frankly claiming this is the answer risks harming women.

Did you know that Arizona voters just voted in protection for abortion in law? This is being fought at a state level - in some cases much more successfully and in a way which will protect women now not in some nebulous future.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/arizona-ballot-measure-proposition-139-amendment-passes-rcna173895

Some of the Arizona voters who voted FOR abortion protection may well have also voted for Trump. Now are they baddies or goodies? Tough call.

Guess we'll have to wait and see what his Project 2025 brings, especially now that Republicans have control of the Senate.

I think it is a sad day for the US and also for the rest of the world .

I have read and seen in the news the reasons for why people did vote for him . I think we have to accept that " democracy prevails " . However a frightening and uncertain time is ahead which will impact the US for generations to come .
I do think the Democrats didn't really have substantive policies and an agenda other than being critical of Trump . They also failed to address the concerns of a lot of working class people .
People do seem to have voted with their financial interests at the forefront . In some ways , who can blame them .
I am sad for all the repercussions which will follow for Ukraine , the Middle East , rights for women , for the balances and checks of power , immigrants etc , global warming to name a few issues which his election will impact . Also not least his previous relationships with Putin & Nortb Korea .

I think it says it all that in the Uk , Liz Truss , Boris Johnson & Nigel Farage all backed him ,

When society faces a challenge that requires investment, an industry will naturally emerge around it to create solutions. This is true for climate change, but it doesn’t mean climate change is fabricated for profit.

When people invest in tackling global issues these efforts go on to create jobs and resilt in economic growth, just like any other sector. For example, clean energy investments drive growth in industries like solar and wind and investments in public health or technology create entire markets and generate jobs for people.

In any crisis, whether it's climate change, the pandemic or a natural disaster, some companies will always profit from addressing the issue. But that doesn’t mean the crisis itself was manufactured to make money. Rather, industries emerge because society needs to solve real problems, and profit is a byproduct of delivering solutions - it’s not proof of a conspiracy

I am no trump supporter but re this point in the op:

• I’ve also heard that life seemed better for many Americans during Trump’s first term, whereas the Biden-Harris administration has been associated with more economic hardships. To this, I’d suggest that some of the difficulties we’ve faced recently - such as inflation, rising interest rates, and oil prices - might have been influenced by global factors beyond any one administration’s control, such as the pandemic and the war in Ukraine.

I am also not a tory voter (prev was lib dem but now vote independent as both Labour and Liberal Democrats are anti women) but I think that had a tory voter said this about the UK economy on here then this argument would have been blasted by the Labour supporters - the last 10 years have been impacted by brexit, the pandemic and the wars globally including cost of living, fuel etc... (I am not passing comment on the former government btw)

Thanks for this response, it’s really helpful to understand that lots of voters based their decision purely on their finances - which in the short term is quite understandable. I guess this response is more aimed at the choices of your family members than it is to you. It’s understandable that your family members and lots of other people are driven by financial interests and prioritise lower taxes or the prosperity of their particular industries. But I feel this perspective is ultimately very short-sighted. Industries like big pharma and oil may bring high incomes now - but at what longterm cost?

The reality is that the health of our society and environment is being massively compromised. If we lose the stability of our climate, the safety of our air and water, or the biodiversity that supports our food systems, what are we really leaving for future generations? While money and the status that brings can give children a good education and material wealth, they cannot replace clean air, a stable climate, or personal health - all of which are increasingly under threat.

The oil industry, for example, is not just about energy; it also contributes heavily to plastic pollution, which has staggering health impacts. The accumulation of plastic in the environment is affecting ecosystems, animal health and even human health. Alarming research shows that male fertility has dropped by 50% over the past 50 years, and plastic pollution is considered a contributing factor due to the chemicals that leach into the water, food chain, and human bodies. (As well as chemicals in pesticides and other things- check out the recent podcast by hubermanlab with dr Shanna swan)

So for the next generation and our kids, the stakes are even higher. Rising rates of chronic illnesses linked to pollution and climate instability, coupled with the potential for resource shortages, paint a really scary picture. When industries prioritise profits over sustainability, they risk leaving their children - and our children - a future marred by environmental degradation and health crises.

So in short, what legacy are we leaving if we prioritise short-term profit over the long-term health of our planet and people? We should be questioning the sustainability of these industries, not just for ourselves but for our kids and the generations to come.

The things is all of those things make sense.

Especially the first amendment v cancel culture which is the preferred route of the Democrats and 'left wing' globally.

The problem is that because of cancel culture no on is really interested in what voters have to say. FAR easier to assume people are mad for voting in a rapist fascist!

This is ultimately why democracy is currently failing. The far left need to do some serious reflection to fix it.

I am not American and wouldn't be caught dead voting for Trump, if I were.

However, on hearing the stock market has rocketed since his victory I checked my pension account and it's gone up 2% in the last 2 days; so thank you 🍾 .

This is very worrying. America may be sleepwalking into something truly terrible.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-history-adolf-hitler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745

@Friedeggs9876 ,

I really like the intelligent way that you have phrased your question, focusing on policies rather than personas.

But, I think, to some extent, in a democracy, it is the wrong question. The question should be to the Democrats and to the liberal left wing globally. If you are on the ‘right side of history’ and so sure that your policies are better, why are you getting increasingly less traction with the electorate?

I don’t think that there is a deep state in terms of a big conspiracy theory, but I do think that there are a bunch of relatively well off people who increasingly run society for special interest groups. Take the ‘green’ agenda, for instance. It is all well and good saying climate change is a ‘global emergency’ (it is a serious problem globally, I won’t deny that) but all the solutions centre around increased energy costs, a ‘poll tax’ on the poorest in society.

Immigration, again, seems compassionate and economically positive, and it is overwhelmingly positive if you live in a nice safe area and it drives down the cost of your services. It is far less positive if immigration is keeping your wage low and you live in a far less safe area. Globalisation is very similar, economically efficient but drives inequality.

And finally, foreign wars. People will argue that Putin is Hitler. He isn’t. He has no desire to roll his tanks across the plains of Germany and invade greater Europe. Yes, he is a nasty despot and wants to take back bits of the old Soviet empire. But I think the UK has given £7bio or so to Ukraine and the U.S close to 10x that without making clear an end game or plan. This is particularly bad here where we don’t even seem keen on defending ourselves! If you are struggling, you may not want to fund this indefinitely.

In sum, the soi-disant ‘compassionate’ left wing have a lot of priorities that they assume a stretched electorate will want to fund and think that, if they take a different view, they are. ‘deplorables’.

Trump speaks a very different language. He appears to understand the problem, he communicates in terms your ‘average Joe’ understands and he offers a vision of proud nationalism (which has become a perjorative to the left ‘citizens of everywhere’. Drill, Baby, Drill bespeaks cheaper energy, he wants to control immigration and wants to invest in home grown growth.

Of course, I have no idea what he actually means and whether he will work to accomplish it or to benefit him and his rich mates. But I can definitely see the appeal of a different narrative.

Yes this, if anything it reinforces perceptions of Trump as an anti establishment figure, with the weaponisation of the judiciary evidence of how threatened they feel by him. This is very encouraging for those who want to disrupt, or at least thumb their noses at what they believe is a very corrupt, indeed evil, system.

I do find it fascinating that as the world drifts more towards the right and nationalism, the left continue to wring their hands and wonder why people are so stupid.

In most events, it is the winning side that celebrates and the losing side that conducts a post morgen.

But I see so little introspection amongst the liberal left. They don’t even consider that they may be right in some areas but wrong in others. They would rather blame the electorate and the media than examine their own ideas and policies.

Without an intelligent and flexible left wing, the World will continue to swing to the right.

I just think it'd be a cold day in hell that I vote for a sex offender. Has he paid E. Jean Carroll any of those damages yet?

I can completely understand the desire for acknowledgment, respect, and being genuinely heard. Feeling dismissed or misunderstood, especially in today’s super polarised world is deeply painful. We often fail to take the time to listen fully or hold ourselves accountable for our side’s missteps - we’re all on a political spectrum, and it’s common place to align with certain policies of a party while turning a blind eye to its more extreme or problematic policies.

The issue of free speech is crucial, and I respect the importance of protecting the First Amendment. However, with the rise of social media, voices that might previously have gone unheard now have a vast reach. While this can be seen to be empowering, it also means that misinformation, hate, and dangerous ideologies can spread really quickly and vulnerable people can be massively impacted on both sides. Look at Andrew Tate amd the young males in the UK. I wonder if we need to ask ourselves where to draw the line on free speech. Should there be some limits, particularly where human rights and public safety are concerned?

Gender-related policies are undeniably a sensitive issue . I sympathise with those who are genuinely transgender and believe these individuals should be supported, treated with compassion, and fully included in society. At the same time, I understand concerns around physical differences in sports and the importance of protecting women’s spaces, which feel especially relevant to those who have experienced trauma. Perhaps we can try and find a way to balance both inclusivity and safety.

The issue of immigration is also complex. There’s the common belief that illegal immigrants receive extensive financial support, but in truth, most of the aid is limited to legitimate refugees and asylum seekers fleeing war or persecution, and they make up a very small minority. Working visa holders and undocumented immigrants generally receive no government assistance. With that in mind, it’s worth considering how we can address these misconceptions without dismissing the economic struggles of normal people and families struggling with inflation, rising housing costs, and economic insecurity. Life is getting really hard - especially for those on lower incomes. It might be worth looking at large corporations that are not paying sufficient taxes and then storing their money in off shore accounts - therefore taking huge amounts of wealth out of the economy. Essentially taking away the entire cake and leaving normal people to fight over the crumbs!

It’s v true that media coverage and the political climate have often exacerbated polarisation. Loads of mainstream outlets have framed stories in ways that alienate viewers, leading lots of sound minded people to lose faith in traditional news sources. But it’s also important to be really cautious about alternative sources, which can spread sensational or inaccurate information and foster fear - a fear that divides us. A more balanced, transparent media could go a long way toward rebuilding trust and I hope that we can somehow build this as a society.

Finally, I can understand the desire to return to a calmer, more predictable world - I hear you!! But sadly this wish for “normalcy” is also complicated by pressing social issues that people feel really scared and passionate about. Voting for certain candidates has unintended consequences, sometimes giving confidence to people who hold terribly racist, misogynistic, or extremist views. In just the past day, for instance, anonymous messages have been sent to thousands of people of colour - including children - in the US threatening them with slavery- which is just beyond words. In supporting anycandidate, we’re also shaping the society that will allow or discourage this type of behaviour, and this is something I think we must all consider carefully.

In the end these are super nuanced issues, and reducing them to simple slogans like MAGA or taking an all-or-nothing stance doesn’t do justice to the complexity we all face. We have to try to engage with one another across the divide, recognising the humanity on both sides if we ever want to find solutions that reflect our shared values of respect, fairness, and security. Peace 🩷

People did not fall for the apocalyptic propaganda and the celebrities tacky and cringy endorsements. They are hungry and cold and prefer money in the bank accounts. Kamala did not have a plan to tackle this and was playing campus politics. Joy and vibes. All very clear now after the analysis and demographics and how they voted. Feel free to open a discussion but it is all out in the papers.

Yes, all my immigrant friends there voted for Trump. They are hard working people and are in shocked with the borders mess and the rights of people who just arrived after they have to go through so much criminals are being protected and not being allowed to be deported when raping and killing. They are all educated to post graduate levels and went in through legal routes. They see the streets becoming full of gangs from the countries they came from. Same fears about the place becoming lawless like back home in some of the very liberal blue states like California.

1. Gaza--Dearborn, MI is the most Muslim city in the US. Biden won it in 2020 by 77%. Trump won it in 2024 by 7%. Trump had the endorsement of most Muslim community leaders, who stated that he was the best chance for peace in the Middle East.
2. Quality of Life--was, by any measure, better under Trump. Prices were lower, wages kept pace. Black and hispanic unemployment was the lowest in history. Black and hispanic wages relative to prices were the highest in history. The US economy under Biden was hurt by his restricting of domestic energy production and by his implementation of excess regulation which has hampered business.
3. Character/legal--The fact that the Special Prosecutor said immediately after Trump won that he was closing up shop shows that many/most of these prosecutions were political. In fact, none of the lawfare against Trump started until he declared his intention to run again. Trump's rape accuser has, over the years, accused several men of raping her, including a babysitter, her dentist, Les Moonves among others. She told Anderson Cooper that "most women think rape is sexy." The dress she said she was wearing during the "rape" was not made by the designer until years later. Her story of the "rape" followed the plot of an SVU episode almost exactly. It's all in the court testimony, but none of that mattered to a prosecutor who had run for office on getting Trump and then hand-selected a rabidly leftist NYC jury to convict him before a rabidly leftist judge.
4. Project 2025--is a white paper from a think tank. It is not and never has been Trump's platform, which is called Agenda 47 and has been on his website for months. The left, including the Harris campaign, lied repeatedly about that because abortion was the only issue she had.Yes, members of Trump's first admin worked on some parts of P2025, but that is what political types in DC do when their party is out of power. It is a far-right wish list, not a legitimate Republican policy proposal, and it never was a Rep policy proposal. Trump has disavowed P2025 on numerous occasions, and has clearly said that he WILL NOT SIGN an abortion ban even in the unlikely event that Congress passes one. Abortion is in the hands of the states, where it rightly belongs under the Constitution. Even Ruth Bader Ginsburg said Roe v. Wade was bad law and that the matter should be left to the states.
5. Environment--Trump got the US out of the Paris Accords because they throttled American business while letting China pollute as much as it wanted. However, during the Trump admin US emissions actually WENT DOWN FURTHER than the Paris Accords would have required, because his business-oriented administration encouraged innovation. The environment is taken seriously in the US, but because we're American we believe in innovating new ways to live well and blunt the worse effects of climate change. Going back to caveman days and eating bugs isn't the answer, clean technology is. Trump understands that.

I forgot: Gender--Harris was all for men in women's sports and safe spaces, Trump will ban it.

Trump won the popular vote by 5 million votes.

HappiestSleeping · Yesterday 16:38
It was actually Trump supporters accusing the government of making the storms

I guess it’s an improvement on blaming “the gays”.

People voted for Trump because they wanted change. Harris represented a continuation of Biden's administration. If you don't like the current state of the country and the direction things are going, it makes sense to vote for an alternative.

It's the same reason people voted for Brexit in the UK. It's the same reason people voted for Starmer. Things are bad and they are getting worse. In US and UK elections there are realistically only two choices of party who will get into power. Vote for the same, don't be surprised if you get the same.

People don't have to think that the alternative is better. Many Trump voters loathe the man - it's not just MAGA conspiracy theorists who voted for him. Normal people did too, in great numbers.

Life is a gamble. In the US election the choice was

1. Vote for more of the same and get a continuing decline in living standards.
2. Vote for change, with a small chance of it getting better and a big chance of it getting even worse.

Only option 2 gives a hope of improvement.

I don't think the questions in your post have ever been considered by the wide American voter. Its far more simple than that.

Many know he's a dreadful person but that's ignored in favour of .....

• when he was President they thought he did stuff that impacted them positively

• Americans are more generally dog eat dog, so they don't have as much investment in looking after others if their own nest is OK

• families and whole States are often strongly one party which means you've grown up being brain washed to it

• they see KH as ineffective in getting rid of Biden. Of working with him when he was clearly failing but not making a stand (I have some sympathy with that view but I doubt she could have had much sway tbh!)

• The past 4 years have been hard for a lot of working Americans. They want change and hope.this will offer it.

• Whilst they are proud to be leaders of the free world they still think of their country first and are not bothered by his impact around the world.

• there's still heavy prejudice country wide against women and colour, with just a few pockets where its more inclusive.