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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask you to share any experiences of parental alienation?

60 replies

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 19:49

Has anybody experienced parental alienation where your children have been turned against you by your spouse? Or any experience of it within your social circle of family. I have a family member who is experiencing this and it is terribly sad.

OP posts:
flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 19:50

how old is the child?

NeedToChangeName · 04/11/2024 19:51

It does happen and is v sad

Sometimes, people blame their ex, but it's actually their own behaviour that droe the children away

DobbyTheHouseElk · 04/11/2024 19:52

It happened to a friend. Really so sad.

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 19:55

Aged 7 and 9. She was a victim of domestic abuse without giving too much away. For those have experienced it did you ever overcome it and have a healthy relationship again?

OP posts:
flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 19:56

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 19:55

Aged 7 and 9. She was a victim of domestic abuse without giving too much away. For those have experienced it did you ever overcome it and have a healthy relationship again?

does she have any access?

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 20:20

@flipdiddle81 No, she was abandoned overseas when her spouse visa ran out as he wanted to marry someone else. He was abusive and 6 months prior to this he would encourage the children to talk badly to their mother and hit her etc. She is in no doubt that by the time she gets back he will have poisoned them against her completely. She will have to go through the family court but no idea how thye handle situations like that.

OP posts:
flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 20:25

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 20:20

@flipdiddle81 No, she was abandoned overseas when her spouse visa ran out as he wanted to marry someone else. He was abusive and 6 months prior to this he would encourage the children to talk badly to their mother and hit her etc. She is in no doubt that by the time she gets back he will have poisoned them against her completely. She will have to go through the family court but no idea how thye handle situations like that.

so they’re living with their father in another country
and she’s in this country

Yes, in all likelihood it will be very difficult for your friend to pick up her relationship with her children whenever she returns to the country they’re in

flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 20:25

by leaving the country and them in it with their father…

she has made parental alienation a lot easier for the father to achieve

PassingStranger · 04/11/2024 20:55

Parents who do that are selfish. Hope it backfired on them one day.

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 21:10

@flipdiddle81 No he dumped here there when her visa had expired. She had no choice in the matter.

OP posts:
flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 21:36

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 21:10

@flipdiddle81 No he dumped here there when her visa had expired. She had no choice in the matter.

sorry? i’m confused
how did he “dump” her there

flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 21:37

she had to leave because her visa expired
that was always going to be the case
what had been her plan?

Ifthishelps · 04/11/2024 22:05

Yes. DS and I have suffered parental alienation. Not by an xp, but at the hands of my own parent.
It went something like this.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother and an enabling father. My sister was the golden child and I was the scapegoat.
Sister grew up, married and left home.
Shortly afterwards, I had DS and my mother made DS the golden child.
Mother had always longed for a son and never had one.
I remained the scapegoat.
Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself and when DS was 16, my mother invited him to live with her.
DS left and was treated as a superhero by my mother.
I see now that this was in a quest for my mother to avoid being lonely.
I tried to maintain a relationship with DS and was successful for a number of years. At one point, he returned home claiming my mother was controlling and manipulative, however, DS returned a couple of years later and from that point on, my mother did everything she could to keep us apart. She changed his phone number, on the basis she would pay the bill for him, refused to have me in her house when DS was there, and I can only imagine the things she said to him.
DS became very abrupt and cold towards me in a matter of weeks after returning to my mother's house.
And then suddenly one day, he simply refused to talk to me. He refused to give me any idea of what had gone wrong.

Our last conversation was where I told him i loved him and he was always welcome to come for a coffee and a chat about anything at all, and I would listen to anything he had to say and take it in.
I apologised for anything I had done to hurt him and told him that my door would always remain open for him at any time of the day or night.
I have had no contact with him since then, and only my mother knows where he is now.
Our last conversation was more than a decade ago.

It is an awful heartbreaking situation to be in, for both parent and child and I don't talk to people irl about it.
I know people will judge and say I must know what I did to make DS cut all contact, but I know I truly honestly have no idea. I have spent years going over everything, and have drawn a blank.
Yes, I have raised my voice at DS when he was a child. Yes, I have gotten frustrated when he was a child and removed his privileges, such as playing his Xbox when his behaviour was challenging but I also loved him beyond measure and let him know this every single day!
I was the mum who taught DS right from wrong but I was also the mum who stood in the rain at the edge of the football pitch, the mum who played Xbox with him, the mum who had his friends in the house, the mum who cuddled up watching films, who took him to the zoo and marvelled at his view of the world.
I was the mum who adored him and wanted him to be happy.
I never believed it could happen to us, my friends who knew us throughout DS's childhood are just as blindsided by it, or so they say.
I have devoured literature on abuse and can honestly say I have never abused DS in any way, however, he is entitled to feel hurt by any of my actions or words that he feels hurt by, whether that was my intention at the time or not. It is not up to me how long or how hurt he can be and I accept that completely!

He has now moved out of my mother's and lives alone somewhere. When I last spoke to my mother to explain how the loss of my son has broken me, she told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill and in fact, she was the injured party, because she was now completely alone and apparently DS has cut her off and she doesn't know where he is.
Whether this is the truth or not, I do not know.
An experience such as this leaves you with deep trust issues.

If I had one wish, one prayer answered, it would be for DS to be happy, wherever he is, and whomever he is with.
If not knowing me makes him happy, that is a price I am prepared to pay.
It has taken me a long time and an ocean of tears to get to the point where I feel I am living with this rather than dying of it.

I used to tell my son he lit up my life, that he was like a big lighthouse, lighting up my life. He turned my life from black and white into full technicolour!
I know he loved me and I loved him very deeply. We told each other this all of the time.
I hope his light hasn't dimmed and he is living a life that brings him joy, even if that means we are apart.
And if the day should come when he knocks on my door, I shall do what I told him I would do, I shall listen to whatever he has to say, whether that's to talk about his reasons for cutting me off or just about the weather, or maybe we will just sit in silence. Just to be in the same space as him again would truly be a blessing!
Parental alienation hurts parents, but let's not forget that it also devastates children!

I will always love my son and once upon a time, I know that he loved me.

WiggyPig · 04/11/2024 22:25

flipdiddle81 · 04/11/2024 21:36

sorry? i’m confused
how did he “dump” her there

This is not an uncommon scenario sadly.

Mostly a spouse will expect to extend their spouse visa once and then settle in the UK - a spouse visa is a "route to settlement."

If there has been abuse, the spouse is entitled to make an application for leave to remain as a victim of domestic abuse.

If she can't prove it (or doesn't want to rock the boat further) and has British children, there is a route for her to apply "outside the Rules" on the basis that she has British children - the law says that there is then NO public interest in removing her.

So there are avenues for women from abroad who find themselves in abusive marriages to remain here with the children.

Abusive men know this and will circumvent those avenues by going "on holiday" with the wife, often with a few weeks or months of unusually loving behaviour so she is willing to go, then leaving her in their home country, bringing the children back with him and badmouthing her to the children. She then has no visa to return, no funds to get one, in all likelihood no family support if she will be blamed, and if she is from a country where children over 7 live with the father, then not much in the way of emotional or legal support either.

@alegalalien your friend can apply as a "stranded spouse" under Appendix DV of the Immigration Rules to re-enter on the basis of domestic abuse (the technical term is transnational marriage abandonment). She needs a really good lawyer. She may be entitled to legal aid. She can apply to the family court from where she is and should do so, asking for a s.37 report in respect of the children on the basis of transnational marriage abandonment and alienation. Good luck.

minerva7 · 05/11/2024 00:48

Ifthishelps · 04/11/2024 22:05

Yes. DS and I have suffered parental alienation. Not by an xp, but at the hands of my own parent.
It went something like this.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother and an enabling father. My sister was the golden child and I was the scapegoat.
Sister grew up, married and left home.
Shortly afterwards, I had DS and my mother made DS the golden child.
Mother had always longed for a son and never had one.
I remained the scapegoat.
Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself and when DS was 16, my mother invited him to live with her.
DS left and was treated as a superhero by my mother.
I see now that this was in a quest for my mother to avoid being lonely.
I tried to maintain a relationship with DS and was successful for a number of years. At one point, he returned home claiming my mother was controlling and manipulative, however, DS returned a couple of years later and from that point on, my mother did everything she could to keep us apart. She changed his phone number, on the basis she would pay the bill for him, refused to have me in her house when DS was there, and I can only imagine the things she said to him.
DS became very abrupt and cold towards me in a matter of weeks after returning to my mother's house.
And then suddenly one day, he simply refused to talk to me. He refused to give me any idea of what had gone wrong.

Our last conversation was where I told him i loved him and he was always welcome to come for a coffee and a chat about anything at all, and I would listen to anything he had to say and take it in.
I apologised for anything I had done to hurt him and told him that my door would always remain open for him at any time of the day or night.
I have had no contact with him since then, and only my mother knows where he is now.
Our last conversation was more than a decade ago.

It is an awful heartbreaking situation to be in, for both parent and child and I don't talk to people irl about it.
I know people will judge and say I must know what I did to make DS cut all contact, but I know I truly honestly have no idea. I have spent years going over everything, and have drawn a blank.
Yes, I have raised my voice at DS when he was a child. Yes, I have gotten frustrated when he was a child and removed his privileges, such as playing his Xbox when his behaviour was challenging but I also loved him beyond measure and let him know this every single day!
I was the mum who taught DS right from wrong but I was also the mum who stood in the rain at the edge of the football pitch, the mum who played Xbox with him, the mum who had his friends in the house, the mum who cuddled up watching films, who took him to the zoo and marvelled at his view of the world.
I was the mum who adored him and wanted him to be happy.
I never believed it could happen to us, my friends who knew us throughout DS's childhood are just as blindsided by it, or so they say.
I have devoured literature on abuse and can honestly say I have never abused DS in any way, however, he is entitled to feel hurt by any of my actions or words that he feels hurt by, whether that was my intention at the time or not. It is not up to me how long or how hurt he can be and I accept that completely!

He has now moved out of my mother's and lives alone somewhere. When I last spoke to my mother to explain how the loss of my son has broken me, she told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill and in fact, she was the injured party, because she was now completely alone and apparently DS has cut her off and she doesn't know where he is.
Whether this is the truth or not, I do not know.
An experience such as this leaves you with deep trust issues.

If I had one wish, one prayer answered, it would be for DS to be happy, wherever he is, and whomever he is with.
If not knowing me makes him happy, that is a price I am prepared to pay.
It has taken me a long time and an ocean of tears to get to the point where I feel I am living with this rather than dying of it.

I used to tell my son he lit up my life, that he was like a big lighthouse, lighting up my life. He turned my life from black and white into full technicolour!
I know he loved me and I loved him very deeply. We told each other this all of the time.
I hope his light hasn't dimmed and he is living a life that brings him joy, even if that means we are apart.
And if the day should come when he knocks on my door, I shall do what I told him I would do, I shall listen to whatever he has to say, whether that's to talk about his reasons for cutting me off or just about the weather, or maybe we will just sit in silence. Just to be in the same space as him again would truly be a blessing!
Parental alienation hurts parents, but let's not forget that it also devastates children!

I will always love my son and once upon a time, I know that he loved me.

😢💐

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 01:04

Yes. A family member moved abroad with her husband. She couldn't work there. She came back to the Uk for a visit and he called her and told her it was over and not to come back. He had the house, the kids, the car, all their stuff. She had no job, no home, no way to support herself.

He then turned the kids against her and she has no contact with two of them. Absolutely heartbreaking.

Tamuchly · 05/11/2024 08:12

Ifthishelps · 04/11/2024 22:05

Yes. DS and I have suffered parental alienation. Not by an xp, but at the hands of my own parent.
It went something like this.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother and an enabling father. My sister was the golden child and I was the scapegoat.
Sister grew up, married and left home.
Shortly afterwards, I had DS and my mother made DS the golden child.
Mother had always longed for a son and never had one.
I remained the scapegoat.
Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself and when DS was 16, my mother invited him to live with her.
DS left and was treated as a superhero by my mother.
I see now that this was in a quest for my mother to avoid being lonely.
I tried to maintain a relationship with DS and was successful for a number of years. At one point, he returned home claiming my mother was controlling and manipulative, however, DS returned a couple of years later and from that point on, my mother did everything she could to keep us apart. She changed his phone number, on the basis she would pay the bill for him, refused to have me in her house when DS was there, and I can only imagine the things she said to him.
DS became very abrupt and cold towards me in a matter of weeks after returning to my mother's house.
And then suddenly one day, he simply refused to talk to me. He refused to give me any idea of what had gone wrong.

Our last conversation was where I told him i loved him and he was always welcome to come for a coffee and a chat about anything at all, and I would listen to anything he had to say and take it in.
I apologised for anything I had done to hurt him and told him that my door would always remain open for him at any time of the day or night.
I have had no contact with him since then, and only my mother knows where he is now.
Our last conversation was more than a decade ago.

It is an awful heartbreaking situation to be in, for both parent and child and I don't talk to people irl about it.
I know people will judge and say I must know what I did to make DS cut all contact, but I know I truly honestly have no idea. I have spent years going over everything, and have drawn a blank.
Yes, I have raised my voice at DS when he was a child. Yes, I have gotten frustrated when he was a child and removed his privileges, such as playing his Xbox when his behaviour was challenging but I also loved him beyond measure and let him know this every single day!
I was the mum who taught DS right from wrong but I was also the mum who stood in the rain at the edge of the football pitch, the mum who played Xbox with him, the mum who had his friends in the house, the mum who cuddled up watching films, who took him to the zoo and marvelled at his view of the world.
I was the mum who adored him and wanted him to be happy.
I never believed it could happen to us, my friends who knew us throughout DS's childhood are just as blindsided by it, or so they say.
I have devoured literature on abuse and can honestly say I have never abused DS in any way, however, he is entitled to feel hurt by any of my actions or words that he feels hurt by, whether that was my intention at the time or not. It is not up to me how long or how hurt he can be and I accept that completely!

He has now moved out of my mother's and lives alone somewhere. When I last spoke to my mother to explain how the loss of my son has broken me, she told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill and in fact, she was the injured party, because she was now completely alone and apparently DS has cut her off and she doesn't know where he is.
Whether this is the truth or not, I do not know.
An experience such as this leaves you with deep trust issues.

If I had one wish, one prayer answered, it would be for DS to be happy, wherever he is, and whomever he is with.
If not knowing me makes him happy, that is a price I am prepared to pay.
It has taken me a long time and an ocean of tears to get to the point where I feel I am living with this rather than dying of it.

I used to tell my son he lit up my life, that he was like a big lighthouse, lighting up my life. He turned my life from black and white into full technicolour!
I know he loved me and I loved him very deeply. We told each other this all of the time.
I hope his light hasn't dimmed and he is living a life that brings him joy, even if that means we are apart.
And if the day should come when he knocks on my door, I shall do what I told him I would do, I shall listen to whatever he has to say, whether that's to talk about his reasons for cutting me off or just about the weather, or maybe we will just sit in silence. Just to be in the same space as him again would truly be a blessing!
Parental alienation hurts parents, but let's not forget that it also devastates children!

I will always love my son and once upon a time, I know that he loved me.

@Ifthishelps reading your story, I just wanted to reach out and give you a virtual hug. Mine is very similar with a narcissistic mother and a golden child brother followed swiftly by my DS becoming the golden child. He lives with her still but we have a sporadic relationship and see each other a few times a year despite living 10 minutes away from each other. I’m just happy to see him, very often it is just a chat about the weather but to have him in the same room makes my heart sing.

Hang in there, you may never get to discuss with him what happened but you might get a new relationship with him one day. During the four years of non contact with my son, while my mother financially supported him living with my ex as long as I didn’t have contact, it felt like a living bereavement but nothing ever stays the same. I hope life brings him back to you one day x

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 08:26

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 01:04

Yes. A family member moved abroad with her husband. She couldn't work there. She came back to the Uk for a visit and he called her and told her it was over and not to come back. He had the house, the kids, the car, all their stuff. She had no job, no home, no way to support herself.

He then turned the kids against her and she has no contact with two of them. Absolutely heartbreaking.

She took a risk leaving the country without her children. Leaving them with a man who clearly she wasn’t remotely in a good place with

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 08:28

Ifthishelps · 04/11/2024 22:05

Yes. DS and I have suffered parental alienation. Not by an xp, but at the hands of my own parent.
It went something like this.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother and an enabling father. My sister was the golden child and I was the scapegoat.
Sister grew up, married and left home.
Shortly afterwards, I had DS and my mother made DS the golden child.
Mother had always longed for a son and never had one.
I remained the scapegoat.
Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself and when DS was 16, my mother invited him to live with her.
DS left and was treated as a superhero by my mother.
I see now that this was in a quest for my mother to avoid being lonely.
I tried to maintain a relationship with DS and was successful for a number of years. At one point, he returned home claiming my mother was controlling and manipulative, however, DS returned a couple of years later and from that point on, my mother did everything she could to keep us apart. She changed his phone number, on the basis she would pay the bill for him, refused to have me in her house when DS was there, and I can only imagine the things she said to him.
DS became very abrupt and cold towards me in a matter of weeks after returning to my mother's house.
And then suddenly one day, he simply refused to talk to me. He refused to give me any idea of what had gone wrong.

Our last conversation was where I told him i loved him and he was always welcome to come for a coffee and a chat about anything at all, and I would listen to anything he had to say and take it in.
I apologised for anything I had done to hurt him and told him that my door would always remain open for him at any time of the day or night.
I have had no contact with him since then, and only my mother knows where he is now.
Our last conversation was more than a decade ago.

It is an awful heartbreaking situation to be in, for both parent and child and I don't talk to people irl about it.
I know people will judge and say I must know what I did to make DS cut all contact, but I know I truly honestly have no idea. I have spent years going over everything, and have drawn a blank.
Yes, I have raised my voice at DS when he was a child. Yes, I have gotten frustrated when he was a child and removed his privileges, such as playing his Xbox when his behaviour was challenging but I also loved him beyond measure and let him know this every single day!
I was the mum who taught DS right from wrong but I was also the mum who stood in the rain at the edge of the football pitch, the mum who played Xbox with him, the mum who had his friends in the house, the mum who cuddled up watching films, who took him to the zoo and marvelled at his view of the world.
I was the mum who adored him and wanted him to be happy.
I never believed it could happen to us, my friends who knew us throughout DS's childhood are just as blindsided by it, or so they say.
I have devoured literature on abuse and can honestly say I have never abused DS in any way, however, he is entitled to feel hurt by any of my actions or words that he feels hurt by, whether that was my intention at the time or not. It is not up to me how long or how hurt he can be and I accept that completely!

He has now moved out of my mother's and lives alone somewhere. When I last spoke to my mother to explain how the loss of my son has broken me, she told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill and in fact, she was the injured party, because she was now completely alone and apparently DS has cut her off and she doesn't know where he is.
Whether this is the truth or not, I do not know.
An experience such as this leaves you with deep trust issues.

If I had one wish, one prayer answered, it would be for DS to be happy, wherever he is, and whomever he is with.
If not knowing me makes him happy, that is a price I am prepared to pay.
It has taken me a long time and an ocean of tears to get to the point where I feel I am living with this rather than dying of it.

I used to tell my son he lit up my life, that he was like a big lighthouse, lighting up my life. He turned my life from black and white into full technicolour!
I know he loved me and I loved him very deeply. We told each other this all of the time.
I hope his light hasn't dimmed and he is living a life that brings him joy, even if that means we are apart.
And if the day should come when he knocks on my door, I shall do what I told him I would do, I shall listen to whatever he has to say, whether that's to talk about his reasons for cutting me off or just about the weather, or maybe we will just sit in silence. Just to be in the same space as him again would truly be a blessing!
Parental alienation hurts parents, but let's not forget that it also devastates children!

I will always love my son and once upon a time, I know that he loved me.

Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself

why didn’t you move away from them?

Chester23 · 05/11/2024 08:34

My brother has 3 children with his ex. The oldest now lives with my brother. Middle doesn't see him and youngest goes on occasion when he can. Social services are involved and on countless occasions have proved things wrong there mum has been saying, the middle child says similar things her mother does. But has also admitted she lied and was too scared to tell the truth after. Even when they were together his ex would do the "oh daddy's so mean isn't he".

My brother has been backwards and forwards to court/police. But doesn't seem to get anywhere. Court order in place but is broken all the time. He doesn't want to force the children to do anything so has got to the point where if they want to see him that's great, if not it's shit but won't make them. We are just waiting for the day the other children realise that what's been said isn't true.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 08:54

She took a risk leaving the country without her children. Leaving them with a man who clearly she wasn’t remotely in a good place with

What?!?! She had NO idea he was having an affair. He gave NO indication. She was totally blindsided. We all were.

What was she supposed to do? Never visit her family and friends?!

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 08:57

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 08:54

She took a risk leaving the country without her children. Leaving them with a man who clearly she wasn’t remotely in a good place with

What?!?! She had NO idea he was having an affair. He gave NO indication. She was totally blindsided. We all were.

What was she supposed to do? Never visit her family and friends?!

she had no idea that once she left this man he called her and told her it was over and not to come back. He had the house, the kids, the car, all their stuff. She had no job, no home, no way to support herself.
He then turned the kids against her

he must have been a hollywood actor

she couldn’t work out there. But presumably she could return at least for a visit to see her children? or has she not seen them since?

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 09:04

Er what?!

Have you never seen any of the thousands of posts on here from wives who are totally blindsided by their husband's affairs?! 🤔

She flew to the Uk for a couple of days to visit her parents, a perfectly normal thing to do. How weird that you think she should never have left the country. 🤔

Just after she landed he called and said not to come back. She'd given up her job to follow him abroad.

Hmm I wonder if you have an agenda here?

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 09:05

an agenda? sure ok

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