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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to share any experiences of parental alienation?

60 replies

alegalalien · 04/11/2024 19:49

Has anybody experienced parental alienation where your children have been turned against you by your spouse? Or any experience of it within your social circle of family. I have a family member who is experiencing this and it is terribly sad.

OP posts:
GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 09:14

And she did return. To pick up her stuff. But he'd thrown a lot of it out.

He then turned the kids against her with crazy accusations of poisoning.

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 09:20

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 09:14

And she did return. To pick up her stuff. But he'd thrown a lot of it out.

He then turned the kids against her with crazy accusations of poisoning.

to pick up her stuff

what about her children?

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 10:44

Yes she saw her children of course. They were in school in that country so not so easy to just up and move them even if she'd been able to take them with her.

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 11:36

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 05/11/2024 10:44

Yes she saw her children of course. They were in school in that country so not so easy to just up and move them even if she'd been able to take them with her.

how old were they?

Ladyofthetramp · 05/11/2024 12:10

Ifthishelps · 04/11/2024 22:05

Yes. DS and I have suffered parental alienation. Not by an xp, but at the hands of my own parent.
It went something like this.
I grew up with a Narcissistic mother and an enabling father. My sister was the golden child and I was the scapegoat.
Sister grew up, married and left home.
Shortly afterwards, I had DS and my mother made DS the golden child.
Mother had always longed for a son and never had one.
I remained the scapegoat.
Over a number of years, my mother and to a lesser degree, my sister, alienated DS and myself and when DS was 16, my mother invited him to live with her.
DS left and was treated as a superhero by my mother.
I see now that this was in a quest for my mother to avoid being lonely.
I tried to maintain a relationship with DS and was successful for a number of years. At one point, he returned home claiming my mother was controlling and manipulative, however, DS returned a couple of years later and from that point on, my mother did everything she could to keep us apart. She changed his phone number, on the basis she would pay the bill for him, refused to have me in her house when DS was there, and I can only imagine the things she said to him.
DS became very abrupt and cold towards me in a matter of weeks after returning to my mother's house.
And then suddenly one day, he simply refused to talk to me. He refused to give me any idea of what had gone wrong.

Our last conversation was where I told him i loved him and he was always welcome to come for a coffee and a chat about anything at all, and I would listen to anything he had to say and take it in.
I apologised for anything I had done to hurt him and told him that my door would always remain open for him at any time of the day or night.
I have had no contact with him since then, and only my mother knows where he is now.
Our last conversation was more than a decade ago.

It is an awful heartbreaking situation to be in, for both parent and child and I don't talk to people irl about it.
I know people will judge and say I must know what I did to make DS cut all contact, but I know I truly honestly have no idea. I have spent years going over everything, and have drawn a blank.
Yes, I have raised my voice at DS when he was a child. Yes, I have gotten frustrated when he was a child and removed his privileges, such as playing his Xbox when his behaviour was challenging but I also loved him beyond measure and let him know this every single day!
I was the mum who taught DS right from wrong but I was also the mum who stood in the rain at the edge of the football pitch, the mum who played Xbox with him, the mum who had his friends in the house, the mum who cuddled up watching films, who took him to the zoo and marvelled at his view of the world.
I was the mum who adored him and wanted him to be happy.
I never believed it could happen to us, my friends who knew us throughout DS's childhood are just as blindsided by it, or so they say.
I have devoured literature on abuse and can honestly say I have never abused DS in any way, however, he is entitled to feel hurt by any of my actions or words that he feels hurt by, whether that was my intention at the time or not. It is not up to me how long or how hurt he can be and I accept that completely!

He has now moved out of my mother's and lives alone somewhere. When I last spoke to my mother to explain how the loss of my son has broken me, she told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill and in fact, she was the injured party, because she was now completely alone and apparently DS has cut her off and she doesn't know where he is.
Whether this is the truth or not, I do not know.
An experience such as this leaves you with deep trust issues.

If I had one wish, one prayer answered, it would be for DS to be happy, wherever he is, and whomever he is with.
If not knowing me makes him happy, that is a price I am prepared to pay.
It has taken me a long time and an ocean of tears to get to the point where I feel I am living with this rather than dying of it.

I used to tell my son he lit up my life, that he was like a big lighthouse, lighting up my life. He turned my life from black and white into full technicolour!
I know he loved me and I loved him very deeply. We told each other this all of the time.
I hope his light hasn't dimmed and he is living a life that brings him joy, even if that means we are apart.
And if the day should come when he knocks on my door, I shall do what I told him I would do, I shall listen to whatever he has to say, whether that's to talk about his reasons for cutting me off or just about the weather, or maybe we will just sit in silence. Just to be in the same space as him again would truly be a blessing!
Parental alienation hurts parents, but let's not forget that it also devastates children!

I will always love my son and once upon a time, I know that he loved me.

This is very similar to my story

My narc mother wanted me to abort him while I was pregnant

I didn't and did my best as a single parent with very little money and even less support

He grew up and my mother swooped in-she made him the golden child of the grandchildren (my brother is the golden child of the siblings) and turned him against me

She even told him I tried to abort him,but she talked me out of it! (The flying monkeys and family backed her up)

The lies that trip off their tongues and the abuse I take is unreal (its her voice but he says it)

All I can do is to take a step back and let the truth come out by itself-im not banking on it-shes turned him into a mini her

I'd give anything to have ten minutes with him,abuse free but it won't happen now

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 12:31

@Ladyofthetramp

genuine question
but why didn’t you move away from your mother? It sounds as though she had an enormous amount of access to your child (and you) despite being an hugely unpleasant and indeed abusive person

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 13:50

To answer why I didnt move away;

I did. I moved miles away and built a life, bought a house, got a job and tried to maintain a cool relationship with them from a distance, because despite my poor relationship with them, I was convinced it was only poor because of who I was, that I was the problem. I believed they adored DS. They certainly didn't treat him badly at all, in fact they would fall over themselves to accommodate him.
It was me they didn't like, so i maintained a cool relationship with them for DS's sake and he got along with them.
It is difficult to explain the way that as a scapegoat, you are made to feel that you are the problem, that you are not seeing the bigger picture, and they are just 'trying to help'.

The alienation really ramped up from when DS became a teenager.

I live miles away from my mother and sister, but they drive and would arrange to pick him up within walking distance of my house, all without my knowledge.
I would return home from work to discover a note, written in my mother's handwriting to say DS had gone to stay with her for a few days to 'give me a break' and on the many occasions I drove to my mother's to collect him, she wouldn't answer the door.

I even called the police, who did a welfare check and deemed DS safe and well and passed the message on that he would be home in a few days, that he was safe with his grandmother and therefore they had no concerns.

It is almost impossible to prove parental alienation and ime police don't get involved.

Could I have removed DS's mobile phone? Yes
Would that have stopped her driving up and lying in wait for him in her car? Absolutely not!

All she needed was a point of contact, and when your teen is willingly going to them, what can you reasonably be expected to do?

I didn't believe the lengths a grandparent would go to, to alienate their grandson until they went to those lengths. I wouldn't have believed they could do what they did, until they actually did it. By then, they had a point of contact and a relationship with him.
Hindsight is 20/20 vision. I didn't have that vision until the damage was done.

It is of some comfort to know that I am not alone in this, although it deeply saddens me that others are living with this too.

Thank you for the kind messages of support.
For all the parents who are living under the sentence of parental alienation, I hear you! I understand your pain and I truly hope you find peace, however that may present in your life.

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 14:02

Just to mention as well that it is incredibly difficult to view close family members you have grown up with as abusive or Narcissistic. That takes a long time, sometimes it never happens.
What happens more often than not is you internalise the message that there is something wrong with you, that you are responsible for the poor treatment, you are to blame and if only you would try harder, you could be accepted by the family.
It starts in childhood and continues until you come to the startling realisation that you are the scapegoat in a Narcissistic family dynamic, where others are flying monkeys or golden children. You are literally on your own as a scapegoat and you believe what these people are telling you.
This gives them an enormous amount of control over you while you focus on fighting to be good enough, to be accepted, to be heard, only to fail over and over and your needs are largely ignored.
You spend most of your life being told you are not enough and you believe it.

That's my experience.

When I realised my mother was a narcissist and my sister was the golden child, from that point on, the fog gradually began to lift.

Ladyofthetramp · 05/11/2024 14:28

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 12:31

@Ladyofthetramp

genuine question
but why didn’t you move away from your mother? It sounds as though she had an enormous amount of access to your child (and you) despite being an hugely unpleasant and indeed abusive person

If id had the money,I would have moved away like a shot

I was a young,skint single mum with no support at all and like a fool I didn't see what was in front of me

I was the scapegoat-there to be laughed at,abused and put down-it was my normal (it's hard to explain,if you dont come from a narc family)

I had nowhere else to go-and it had been drilled into me that family is everything-no matter what they did

She was (still is) their grandmother and I believed that having contact with her was in their interests-after all,you hear that grandparents are important to their grandchildren

I didn't see what was coming until it was far too late to do anything

If I could go back in time,believe me,id be gathering my babies up (him and his siblings)and running as far as I could from her and the rest of them

All I can do now is wait and see

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 15:12

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 13:50

To answer why I didnt move away;

I did. I moved miles away and built a life, bought a house, got a job and tried to maintain a cool relationship with them from a distance, because despite my poor relationship with them, I was convinced it was only poor because of who I was, that I was the problem. I believed they adored DS. They certainly didn't treat him badly at all, in fact they would fall over themselves to accommodate him.
It was me they didn't like, so i maintained a cool relationship with them for DS's sake and he got along with them.
It is difficult to explain the way that as a scapegoat, you are made to feel that you are the problem, that you are not seeing the bigger picture, and they are just 'trying to help'.

The alienation really ramped up from when DS became a teenager.

I live miles away from my mother and sister, but they drive and would arrange to pick him up within walking distance of my house, all without my knowledge.
I would return home from work to discover a note, written in my mother's handwriting to say DS had gone to stay with her for a few days to 'give me a break' and on the many occasions I drove to my mother's to collect him, she wouldn't answer the door.

I even called the police, who did a welfare check and deemed DS safe and well and passed the message on that he would be home in a few days, that he was safe with his grandmother and therefore they had no concerns.

It is almost impossible to prove parental alienation and ime police don't get involved.

Could I have removed DS's mobile phone? Yes
Would that have stopped her driving up and lying in wait for him in her car? Absolutely not!

All she needed was a point of contact, and when your teen is willingly going to them, what can you reasonably be expected to do?

I didn't believe the lengths a grandparent would go to, to alienate their grandson until they went to those lengths. I wouldn't have believed they could do what they did, until they actually did it. By then, they had a point of contact and a relationship with him.
Hindsight is 20/20 vision. I didn't have that vision until the damage was done.

It is of some comfort to know that I am not alone in this, although it deeply saddens me that others are living with this too.

Thank you for the kind messages of support.
For all the parents who are living under the sentence of parental alienation, I hear you! I understand your pain and I truly hope you find peace, however that may present in your life.

by teen too late if they’ve had unfettered access to someone

it was the years as a baby, toddler, primary… when you could have moved far away and / or told nursery / school to never allow them to collect. He was a baby and young child and primary pupil under your roof.

I know this is harsh. I know. But if you truly want to build bridges with your son, you need to be 100% honest with him.

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 15:13

how ever you are right
i had a very happy and healthy childhood, as have my children and consequently i do struggle with understanding why you simply didn’t move away.

but that is on me

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 15:15

She was (still is) their grandmother and I believed that having contact with her was in their interests-after all,you hear that grandparents are important to their grandchildren

what? this is what i can’t get my head around
even if she treated my child like a princess
the very person she was and what i knew she was capable of would mean she would have zero contact with my daughter

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 16:02

flipdiddle81 · 05/11/2024 15:12

by teen too late if they’ve had unfettered access to someone

it was the years as a baby, toddler, primary… when you could have moved far away and / or told nursery / school to never allow them to collect. He was a baby and young child and primary pupil under your roof.

I know this is harsh. I know. But if you truly want to build bridges with your son, you need to be 100% honest with him.

Show quote history

I need to be honest with my son? Honest about what exactly? He refuses to speak to me. He refuses to be in the same street as me, let alone the same building or the same room.
Whilst I appreciate your response, I really don't think you understand the dynamics of a Narcissistic family set up.
Scapegoats live in a complete fog! They can't think straight. I think unless you have had direct experience of it, you can only imagine what you would do in those circumstances.
You are coming from a place where you were brought up in a happy healthy family. This will shape the angle you imagine you would come at it from.

GothRedWineDance · 05/11/2024 16:27

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 16:02

I need to be honest with my son? Honest about what exactly? He refuses to speak to me. He refuses to be in the same street as me, let alone the same building or the same room.
Whilst I appreciate your response, I really don't think you understand the dynamics of a Narcissistic family set up.
Scapegoats live in a complete fog! They can't think straight. I think unless you have had direct experience of it, you can only imagine what you would do in those circumstances.
You are coming from a place where you were brought up in a happy healthy family. This will shape the angle you imagine you would come at it from.

Show quote history

From one scapegoat to another - i understand totally and share your pain. Fwiw, I've learnt over time that unless you have direct experience of this type of family set up, other people will never ever get it. I've mostly given up trying to explain - even the loveliest of friends will scratch their heads and think ' surely it can't be that bad...why did you not fight back and stand your ground'. Or worse, buy into the narrative that there must be something wrong with YOU, that you must have done something so heinous to warrant such alienation. Which adds another layer of hurt, when even outsiders have deemed you rotten. Your analogy of being in a complete fog where you can't tell up from down, is especially fitting. Anyway, sorry just a long winded way of saying I see you and feel your pain.

Ladyofthetramp · 05/11/2024 21:13

GothRedWineDance · 05/11/2024 16:27

From one scapegoat to another - i understand totally and share your pain. Fwiw, I've learnt over time that unless you have direct experience of this type of family set up, other people will never ever get it. I've mostly given up trying to explain - even the loveliest of friends will scratch their heads and think ' surely it can't be that bad...why did you not fight back and stand your ground'. Or worse, buy into the narrative that there must be something wrong with YOU, that you must have done something so heinous to warrant such alienation. Which adds another layer of hurt, when even outsiders have deemed you rotten. Your analogy of being in a complete fog where you can't tell up from down, is especially fitting. Anyway, sorry just a long winded way of saying I see you and feel your pain.

Show quote history

You've put it so much better than I ever could

Unless you've lived it,you can't understand it

I wanted my mother to love me and by extension,my children

It wasn't never going to happen-she hates me and was waiting for her chance

At the time,I was desperate to be loved-if it happened now,I'd be laughing at her while flicking the finger as I walked away

GothRedWineDance · 05/11/2024 23:11

Ladyofthetramp · 05/11/2024 21:13

You've put it so much better than I ever could

Unless you've lived it,you can't understand it

I wanted my mother to love me and by extension,my children

It wasn't never going to happen-she hates me and was waiting for her chance

At the time,I was desperate to be loved-if it happened now,I'd be laughing at her while flicking the finger as I walked away

Show quote history

I'm so sorry you've been through it too. I don't know anyone in 'real life' who's experienced the horror of this type of abuse and as such, it can make you feel very alone and ashamed in a strange sort of way, even though older, wiser you knows the fault lies entirely at their feet. Hugs to all of us souls struggling with toxic families like ours.

flipdiddle81 · 06/11/2024 06:52

what i find so sad is that the toxicity you endured at the hands of your mothers

your children were also exposed to throughout their childhood and now you are estranged from them (and sometimes also estranged from the toxic mother, so the child is now completely estranged) … and so the cycles continues

flipdiddle81 · 06/11/2024 06:54

it’s a tragedy
that all would have been avoided by simply no contact once you had children

flipdiddle81 · 06/11/2024 06:54

it is so hard to get my head around having these evil people in my children’s lives to such an extent that they are able to form even closer attachments to the evil people than to me… their own mother

Pol1961 · 06/11/2024 07:20

GothRedWineDance · 05/11/2024 23:11

I'm so sorry you've been through it too. I don't know anyone in 'real life' who's experienced the horror of this type of abuse and as such, it can make you feel very alone and ashamed in a strange sort of way, even though older, wiser you knows the fault lies entirely at their feet. Hugs to all of us souls struggling with toxic families like ours.

Show quote history

This youtube channel says it all run by an alienated girl now a woman - who discovered the sad reality of parental alienation https://www.youtube.com/@TheAnti-AlienationProject

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/@TheAnti-AlienationProject

Ifthishelps · 06/11/2024 17:46

My mother and sister didn't present as evil people. They presented as people who wanted to help, who wanted what was best for me.
They weren't evil creatures who looked like grotesque monsters and pinched me and spat at me through gritted teeth from a dark corner.
People who are abusive are not abusive all of the time, sometimes, they are not even abusive a lot of the time, and when they lose control and become abusive, they are very good at blaming you for it and justifying their actions or words.

If a parent tells a child something over and over, they believe it!
When they realise its not true, they become confused!

Escaping a Narcissistic family dynamic is not dissimilar to the boiling frog analogy, and if I were to use that analogy, I would agree that no one would stay in a pot of boiling water, they would leap out. Of course that's true! But in a narcissistic family, the water wasn't boiling when you first got in, it heated up slowly!!
At what point do you leap out?
When the heat is intolerable!
Do you take your children out of every situation you find intolerable even when they are having fun?
My DS adored his GM and she adored him. DS was never the scapegoat. He was the golden child!

flipdiddle81 · 06/11/2024 17:48

Ifthishelps · 06/11/2024 17:46

My mother and sister didn't present as evil people. They presented as people who wanted to help, who wanted what was best for me.
They weren't evil creatures who looked like grotesque monsters and pinched me and spat at me through gritted teeth from a dark corner.
People who are abusive are not abusive all of the time, sometimes, they are not even abusive a lot of the time, and when they lose control and become abusive, they are very good at blaming you for it and justifying their actions or words.

If a parent tells a child something over and over, they believe it!
When they realise its not true, they become confused!

Escaping a Narcissistic family dynamic is not dissimilar to the boiling frog analogy, and if I were to use that analogy, I would agree that no one would stay in a pot of boiling water, they would leap out. Of course that's true! But in a narcissistic family, the water wasn't boiling when you first got in, it heated up slowly!!
At what point do you leap out?
When the heat is intolerable!
Do you take your children out of every situation you find intolerable even when they are having fun?
My DS adored his GM and she adored him. DS was never the scapegoat. He was the golden child!

but how did they present to you?

flipdiddle81 · 06/11/2024 17:50

You moved away with your son
but they would collect him from school and come to your house?

namechangedtemporarily123 · 06/11/2024 18:52

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

researchers3 · 08/10/2025 22:41

Ifthishelps · 05/11/2024 14:02

Just to mention as well that it is incredibly difficult to view close family members you have grown up with as abusive or Narcissistic. That takes a long time, sometimes it never happens.
What happens more often than not is you internalise the message that there is something wrong with you, that you are responsible for the poor treatment, you are to blame and if only you would try harder, you could be accepted by the family.
It starts in childhood and continues until you come to the startling realisation that you are the scapegoat in a Narcissistic family dynamic, where others are flying monkeys or golden children. You are literally on your own as a scapegoat and you believe what these people are telling you.
This gives them an enormous amount of control over you while you focus on fighting to be good enough, to be accepted, to be heard, only to fail over and over and your needs are largely ignored.
You spend most of your life being told you are not enough and you believe it.

That's my experience.

When I realised my mother was a narcissist and my sister was the golden child, from that point on, the fog gradually began to lift.

This.

And then I went and married the cleverest, most manipulative covert narcissist you could imagine.