Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

I can't help thinking you don't want her 5 hours away op. I think your experience of being at home for uni is colouring your views here. I know you will say I'm wrong but you need to be honest with yourself.
Plenty of shy kids go away to uni and make friends eventually. And its often the making of them.

I believe the main thing DD is struggling with is just not being sure what she will feel like next September. How difficult it would be to study further from home. Or how she would feel about commuting to classes in London. She just doesn't know and yet she is supposed to make choices for the next 3 years based on what she is feeling now.

She says she has been working hard during secondary school and doesn't want to be in a high-pressure environment and feeling inferior to super-bright students. That she wants to have fun at uni as well as study. When I try to point out gently that people in Oxbridge and LSE too have fun, she says that no, they don't.

So this goes quite deep I suppose. But then I am of an opinion that when you are tired, you take a break and rest, you don't quit.

She says she doesn't want to go to Cambridge even if she is accepted. But when we were at the Open day she was exhilarated, excited and kept saying how much she loved it and wanted to go there. Now she is adamant she doesn't want it.

That's what makes it difficult - it's a lot about feelings and they can change in either way.

I am sorry but it really does come across as if you want bragging rights of what you perceive to be prestigious unis. Cambridge apart some of those you are turning your nose up at are as good or better than Durham.

Is it your daughter who believes she shouldn't have worked as hard as she have "just" to go to what you perceive to be lesser unis or you? She will find good school grades are often what separates out candidates for internships and graduate jobs in some professions going forward.

On the basis that your DD is in Year 13, she is at liberty to decide not to study so hard and (potentially) get lower grades if that's what she prefers.

She should also be aware that students entering university with higher grades (and there are more students with A* grades than there are places at Oxbridge) tend to have better outcomes than students with lower grades. At the very least, it will make her university transition much smoother.

Getting top grades (which I will point out that your DC doesn't actually have yet so your whole post is premature) gives you more options. That's the point of them.

Honestly both you and she are overthinking it. After a year at Uni she will be a young adult not a school girl, and they change, grow. What seems ultra important right now, will feel less so (campus v city etc) The first term anywhere is pretty stressful and they often want to be close to home but after that it usually settles and you see a lot less of them.
My girls were both straight A Alevel students.. one chose Exeter, the other Nottingham because they were perfect for the courses they wanted. We are in the middle. Neither drove at the time either. They managed, we managed. Neither wanted to stay local (Oxford) and medicine at Camebridge didn't appeal.
They had a great time, went into their medical careers and don't regret working hard at school!

It’s an odd post indeed
she applies for Oxbridge if she fancies it, if she doesn’t get in she hopefully gets in at one of the other unis she loved, in which case she will have (a bit) less pressure to get the top grades which is a good thing.

and if she gets the top grades anyway then that will look good on her cv but she’ll still have a great time at university and probably be more likely to do really well there eg get a first, than if she went to Oxbridge. If she’s as high achieving as you say she is then she will do very well out of life regardless.

OK my post crossed with yours. So it is indeed you wanting her to go somewhere you perceive to be prestigious.

Again: I don't mind. She can go to as far as the US if that what she wants.

She's sounding like a student in a pressurised environment (is she at a selective school, by any chance?) who is burnt out.

Would a gap year be a sensible option for her to re-evaluate her choices?
Alternatively, a university with a slower pace of work might actually be better for her.

You don't perceive Oxbridge, LSE, UCL more prestigious than Bath or Exeter?

I think there's still value to be had in working hard for something even if you didn't "have to". It will stand her in good stead for her later studies, wherever she is.

Maybe this is a lesson in 'you can't always have it all at the same time'(if she doesn't get into Cambridge). There are sometimes limited options and we have to choose our priorities - if being able to get home for birthdays is more important than one of the top unis you've described, well, she is making a choice based on her values.

I would ask her to consider what she might feel like after she's settled in, has a good circle of friends and loads of things to do in addition to her studies... would she still be worried about getting home so much?

DD was an Oxbridge entrant and didn’t get in. She got 4x A* and is diploma level on her first instrument and post grade 8 on her second. What we didn’t do was say well that’s it then, no uni is going to be good enough for our talented clever daughter. We encouraged her to go and enjoy herself and carry on loving learning.

She’s at another red brick uni instead, who shock horror, actually downgraded her offer from their usual AAA to BBB because they wanted her there. She didn’t think oh well I won’t bother carrying on working then as I don’t need to. She pushed herself and achieved. She is really happy at her chosen uni; mixes academic rigour (getting a solid first) with enjoying student life and now doesn’t think Oxbridge would have given her what she needed.
Be more open. The unis you have mentioned are all great and she can achieve anything she wants if she works. You need to change your mindset. This is real life and you won’t always be surrounded by the elite.

Doesn't matter who perceives what university as prestigious.

"Prestigious" doesn't impact the quality of teaching, the course content or, increasingly due to blind recruitment, the chances of a job afterwards.

Commuting to London sounds terrible - surely she’d want to live in halls in her first year, and flat share for the others.

I don’t know what the pressure on accommodation is like these days but some students went back into hall for their third year as well.

Thats what I did, and my parents live just 50 miles from London. This was mid-1990s though.

Not RTFT, but interesting question, OP.

Your post assume that the only reason to work hard is to get into uni. But, presumably, there are other reasons your DD is working hard/putting in effort? If A level work is only useful for getting in to a uni, and nothing else, then the system is f*ed (which, to be fair, it is...).

I live in the South East. DD2 did her degree in Scotland, She came home term by train (12+ hours) as she doesn't like flying.. We would take her up at the start of the academic year and have a weeks holiday and do the same at the end of the year - it is perfectly doable and well Scotland is beautiful

Your DD as others have pointed out should really be basing her Uni choice on the best course for her preferred subject

You are missing the point of education. A good university provides the teaching and resources for her to do well but the experience is literally all about the effort she puts in, so if she's doing that now then that is setting her up to do well. Of course you have to get good grades to get into good universities but working and learning should be about practising the skills not achieving the grade (whether A levels actually prepare you for uni is arguable but a different issue).

I think being happy at the uni is more important than league table. Many employers won't rank candidates based on the uni, and actually can't use this as a factor because of discrimination. Employers care more about industrial experience so she should choose a uni offering a placement year / internships etc. This will help her more after, good grades only get you so far.

I'm mid 20s with similar GCSEs to her but the old system, not so great A levels then a distinction and first in my bachelors and masters, having gone to non-red brick / Russel group unis. I work at a very reputable company now

Do good grades at school really separate the candidates in applications for internships? Genuine question

If she "doesn't want to be in a high-pressure environment and feeling inferior to super-bright students" - Cambridge is not for her.

And yes whilst students there do have fun, they also spend 13 hour stints in the library because of the level of academic rigour and pressure. Just because someone is an A* student, doesn't make them Oxbridge material, and that's fine.

You perceive Durham to be more "prestigious" than Warwick and Bristol.

This is clearly about you wanting bragging rights rather the right course and place for your daughter.

No you clearly want her at Oxbridge and are looking down on anything else. Poor girl.

She doesn’t want to go to Oxbridge. It’s her choice not yours and she has sensibly chosen life balance. She knows herself best .Stop trashing her choices. I suspect one of the reasons she doesn’t want Oxbridge is to escape pressure from you and previous experience of a pushy environment.

None of mine wanted to go that far away. I think it's only the UK where we push our dcs to live hours away from home. My relations in Europe don't do this, they've all gone to their most local uni.

If you are very hung up on league tables then yes you sometimes have to go a long away away. None of mine were interested in going 7 hours away.

Two of them are working now and both have excellent graduate jobs so staying closer to home didn't hurt. And it was lovely seeing them every couple of weeks - a very unmumsnet but healthy attitude.

Queens Belfast
Barely an hour on an plane?
Edinburgh ? Likewise
or are they not prestigious enough for you to boast about at dinner parties

There are lots of top universities south of the midlands, she needs to find one that offers the course she wants to take any apply for it. Does she want to go?