Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Apologies if I’ve missed other references, but London does have one potential huge advantage - if the career you’re aiming for is London-centric, it gives an opportunity to take advantage of having London based accommodation (which is usually year-round) to take up holiday jobs/internships, volunteer work etc.

My daughter chose UCL for other reasons, but going there enabled her to take on an paid internship for 3 months in the summer before her final year, which eventually led to a full-time job offer on graduation. As she had to pay for her student accommodation over the summer anyway, this was only possible because she studied in London.

a degree in politics sounds like this may well be a consideration.

What a ridiculous post. Lancaster uni campus is amazing! It’s number 10 on the complete list and my son picked it over all the others above it. Oxbridge not being in the running. We were blown away with the accommodation and facilities when we visited. It’s set in parkland with eco pods to study in, pick your own and even has its alone Asian supermarket and cafes/ restaurant, bars linked to houses and has a lovely feel, has good business links, is well respected and has some fantastic courses plenty with a year abroad or in industry.You can get to Manchester and the lakes from it. Warwick was a definite no no after visiting and Bath/Exeter/ Bristol just turned him cold( full of yah, yah ex private students). Wasn’t keen on the London unis when we started looking at accommodation…

So you need to do loads of visits( it’s horses for courses)and let her choose for herself.

It's just a matter of the type of university experience you want.

Your sneering post and snobbery speak volumes. It’s not the uni of the M6 and Warwick is a campus uni stuck in the outskirts of Coventry with a campus not half as good as Lancaster and rated the same on the complete list. Warwick seemed to escape your sneering but then I guess it’s one of the MN chosen unis. 🙄 Honestly this obsession with a tiny handful of unis is ridiculous.

I know St Andrews might seem 'too far' but for a course involving International Relations it probably is one of 'the places to go'. While it is not technically a campus university it has all the benefits of one.

I went to St Andrews from East Anglia a while ago, when it was a 9-10 hour door-to-door trip. It's a lot easier/ quicker now, and you can fly from Dundee airport to Heathrow for c. £100 each way (if that makes a difference).

What's there to do in Saint Andrews? Like I've visited, I much prefer Edinburgh

If she did want to pop home then she could either:

1. get the bus - horrifying I know but national express & megabus are things!
2. book in advance

the only students I knew who went home during term time where those that lived there! Uni is also full of international students who don’t even go back every term.

A campus vs non campus matters less than the teaching, the opportunities and the vibe. If she wants oxbridge vibe (I.e. to study her socks off) then Durham or LSE will provide a group of people who also want to study their socks off but also people who don’t.

Oxbridge students I knew used to wake up at 9am on Saturday to play a board game for 45mins over breakfast and then go study until lunch. Some augmented this by rowing from 6am first. Sure there were end of term blow outs but there was more studying. Fear of looking stupid in front of a Don is a great motivator.

I didn't go to a RG university, so the "tiny handful of unis" comment doesn't apply to me. Lancaster is just an example of the extreme end of campus-focussed universities. All Unis have nicknames, thank goodness I didn't use QMU as an example of a campus-focussed university or that would really have got the pearls clutched.

Lots for students - so many societies. The absence of nightclubs means that there's more focus on other forms of entertainment. Plenty of music, drama, sports etc.

Also learning to/playing golf is a bargain for students...

The vast majority of students who go to St Andrews have a great time - reflected in its high ranking in the student satisfaction surveys.

I’m aware of all this, having DC who went to.

If your DD changes her mind about the distance issue, I believe St Andrews feels more like a campus due to the small size of the city. They also have a top International Relations degree if that is of interest. We went to the subject talk at the open day and were impressed with what they had to say.

Hey!

So I'm going to address a few points generally and hope to make you feel better.

1. Aged 17 I did a spreadsheet on train times, drive times and average train ticket costs from all universities I liked the idea of. Being from Durham, I chose no further than Manchester. It didn't make me immature as some suggest, but realistic that I didn't want London/abroad until after university as I liked the idea of popping home and having Sunday lunch if I was REALLY stressed from studying.

2. as a Law student walking through Newcastle campus I came across a week 1 SE young fresher SOBBING because she had to audition for a musical, was told she couldn't drop French (it was more advanced than she thought and the uni had you take random minor subjects, she didn't study French overall) and she missed home. Her parents were distraught 3-4 hours away. I sat with her for about 2 hour, gave her a cuddle and sent her to her audition. She texted thanking me, that she'd got the part and based on my advice as a third year, they let her drop French. Do not underestimate if she says she recognises she's not ready to be 300 miles away, maybe when she's graduated she will get the distance bug, it's ok if she doesn't!

3. her A-level grades will see her top of the pile on graduate/internships. My having a 1st class honours and AAA has seen my application top of the pile AND I've been involved in hiring trainees and paralegals/trainees when in-house. Law isn't politics, but while she may be over achieving for her uni choice, she will be glad she did for an over competitive graduate decision.

Overall, getting the "vibe" (eg campus), distance and her being able to continue to absorb her studies so well is key to her staying happy, getting good grades and therefore getting the most from university. I don't see the issue.

I do agree with some comments I've seen you post yourself that she should use her choices wisely. If she has 5 choices and 1 is Cambridge, 1 should be another "high level" uni close to home, another perhaps city uni then 2 "real" choices she already likes. She's then got a good spread and might be happy she has done this by decision time? She should re-visit all of them as open days (even weather etc!) can change your view of a uni and meeting lecturers/current students on different days and different people etc.

Good luck in her decision!

Great post @lawyer12

Lovely post.

I work in a university and I think the metrics by which what's 'top' are measured, are tricksy. As a headline, the four you listed are all Russell Group institutions apart from Bath (and Bath still ranks very highly), meaning they would be attractive names to a great deal of employers. So it really comes down to: which specific course will she thrive in most, and how can the Careers dept support her as she moves into the workplace?

RG institutions' funding and reputation is built on research, not teaching quality: teaching can be viewed as a hassle distracting from 'real' work and teaching-focused staff are often seen as 'lesser' academics as a result. So if she's passionate about the subject and wants inspiring teaching, I'd suggest using forums like Unibuddy to speak to students at each institution she's considering and getting a feel for the department and course as they can vary hugely. Beyond that, it's worth speaking to the Careers team and getting a sense of how proactive they are, how good their contacts are, and the kind of roles alumni have gone on to do.

A level grades aren't just to get into uni. Lots of people don't go to uni after a levels.

Five hours travel is tricky for students without much money. My daughter often struggled to find the train fare home and I could never help her out. So yes it is a consideration.

Agree, 5 hours makes getting home for a weekend more expensive and difficult. If she’s closer it doesn’t mean that she will be home all the time but at least it’s easier when she wants.
being closer means that parents can collect/drop off often at the holidays when you often have lots of stuff

I would strongly advise against Lancaster to study politics at present.

Most students leave the campus after the first year and live in town which is a 30 bus journey away.

Well that’s the case with most campus universities and it actually takes 15 minutes to get into the centre of the city.

Or any university. When DD moved out of halls she used to get the metro in from her second and third year accommodation.

I work at a different university which is also campus based and ranks slightly higher than Lancaster (but also top ten). The facilities (and social scene) are worlds apart. I have been to a significant number of UK universities including all RG universities and there is no other where the combination of buildings, accommodation, social facilities, libraries and other amenities are as good as Lancaster. It’s an outstanding university on a beautiful campus and shouldn’t be dismissed just because people have outdated notions of what it’s like.

Lots of unis have lots of the student accommodation including private houses for second and third years within walking distance (5-20 mins walk)

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/politics

Not that the OP will focus on anything but Cambridge and Oxford but the Politics rankings are quite surprising to me.

I kind of know what you mean. My kid got all a stars and went to Bristol. It has been pretty disappointing. Their friends have also been saying how they feel like numbers in the institution and nobody knows them. My Oxbridge kid is having a far better experience, they also got all a stars.

For humanity subjects, there seems to be a big gulf between Oxbridge and the rest. Sciences seem to be much better taught at lots of universities, as do the professions like law and medicine.

I would not put Bristol down as a choice, as my child is doing similar subjects and it is not great