Top Unis - am I missing something?

[OnTheRoll]

DD is in Year 13, predicted 3 A, already has an A from a language A Level she did last year, and 11 GCSEs all 8/9. Got a great work experience in her chosen field, lots of academic reading, etc., etc. Has been working very hard and aiming for a top uni.

The problem is, it seems that unless she gets into Oxbridge, there isn't a suitable option for her?

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

There are of course great options like Warwick, Bristol, Bath, Exeter. We visited and DD loved them and so did I.

But I cannot help thinking that if she were to go to one of those unis she didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing her free time. Does it make sense? Entry requirements in those unis in her subject are all quite lower than her current and predicted grades.

Would appreciate some perspective.

Whether your daughter is doing too much really depends on the kind of work she is doing. If she's extending herself with lots of reading, that's the kind of habit that either will get her into Cambridge or will see her achieve highly in her cohort elsewhere, as well as setting her up with wider knowledge and critical thinking skills for life, so is to be encouraged. Endless memorising of a textbook is less good a use of her time if she doesn't need to spend ages doing that for the top grades she want.

As an aside, in one of your posts you suggest that she has already applied to Cambridge but has two options left to choose on her UCAS form. As far as I'm aware, this isn't possible - if she has applied to Cambridge then her UCAS form will have been submitted by the October desdline. Have I misunderstood what you have said?

What career does she want to do after her degree?

If she is actually interested in politics....why not Edinburgh which has a different political culture and will make her think a lot more than staying in England. Or London where Politics is all around you

Has she considered Southampton? It’s Russell Group and on a (leafy) campus, yet still easy to get into the city.

I’d recommend she choose the location over the course. She’ll be moving to a new area on her own, where she may well have lifelong ties, so important she feels happy and comfortable there.

I wouldn’t worry about the course requiring lower grades. If she gets top A levels grades, they’re her grades for life. The important thing is that she’s happy and not under too much pressure. Student days should be just as much about having fun, learning life lessons and making friends, as academic success.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2023/sep/09/best-uk-universities-for-politics-league-table

Not sure I really see the issue. If she has top A level grades employers are going to take that into account as well as her university. It's never going to be wasted effort. And if she is that bright she'll be in the top cohort in her uni which will stand to her.

Not sure why all the angst about Edinburgh and Durham based on the list above? But student satisfaction scores are one factor, employer and post grad uni's in the USA are a different lens.

5 hours is really nothing. You could easily spend that schlepping across London from a midlands uni depending on where trains come in and exit from. Cambridge as a "campus" I suspect is more of a London experience than Aberdeen would be.

Depending where you are in the SE, the train to London from Durham is around 3 hours.

She doesn't have to travel to you for family events- you could go to her!

Also, I thought most first years lived in Hall?
It's only after that they move out into flats/ houses.
So she'll have had a whole year to make friends.

I agree about Warwick. I've heard so many good things about the teaching there, especially for politics and maths. Every child i know at Bristol is loving it, and im also crazy about it as a city... She will find plenty of high achievers anywhere she goes. Tbh we are as a country making progress at last towards not seeing Oxbridge as the be-all and end-all, because we are not aiming to produce only one type of person any more.

It’s the minimum requirements for those courses. Some of those university and courses have students that surpass the minimum requirements as they are so competitive.

so yes the OP is naive

Your daughter is a young adult as well as your child @OnTheRoll

She is making intelligent choices based not just on the perceived status of a uni but also on where she feels she will be happy.

Bath is an excellent campus uni in a nice safe city, the same is true of Exeter & York. Bristol is not a campus uni so may not appeal to her. The best uni for her will depend on subject choice as they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Be very careful OP.

I have seen carnage when kids didn’t reach the predicted grades when their parents (and communities in some cases) had set them up for a fall by having a list of “acceptable” universities and the rest.

It is insane to consider Bristol, Bath and others as not good enough! These are full of kids with straight A-star/A grades.

I speak as someone whose child is in one of the universities you deem acceptable so this isn’t a chip on my shoulder.

She could consider unis like Bath, Royal Holloway, Exeter, Reading?

I had similar grades to your DD and got an oxbridge place but decided it wasn’t for me - too formal - and went to one of those instead, and I’ve never regretted it.

The published required grades and the actual required grades are 2 different things. For my course, the published required grades was BBB. The actual required predicted grades were AAB (this was before the days of A stars) to even get an interview, there were over 50 applicants per place. So her getting higher predicted grades than those published should give her an advantage.

There is also something to be said about achieving for self satisfaction rather than for a specific outcome, which if she has this, is a fabulous quality which will help her go further than any specific grades will.

I got top marks for every exam I've ever sat. Scottish exams, so x9 1s at standard grade and x5 As at Highers (with recognition from examination board on actual marks). I went to University of Glasgow and loved it and have a fabulous, highly paid career. I went on to a Masters at UCL to specialise a bit more. It really doesn't need to be Oxbridge - I'm intrigued why you think this?

@OnTheRoll"Thanks for replying. I am not moaning and I did list some great unis. But I think you will agree that they are not top ones and you don't need 4 A Stars to get into those."
Warwick and Bristol are definitely among the top universities. So are Bath and Exeter.
There are other good universities apart from Oxbridge.

Back in the day, Oxford used to often ask for 2 E grades.

DH had a 2 E offer for PPE... still got 4 As (A star not invented at that point) as did most of his friends.

Weirdly they didn't all feel that they "didn't really need to spend that much time working, studying and sacrificing free time"... they were genuinely interested in their subjects, and bright enough that they got the A grades without that much work.

If your DD is needing to spend so much time working to get those grades, is she actually Oxbridge material - especially for politics where there is a lot of extra curricular to get involved with.

You can submit your UCAS form with fewer than 5 choices, and add additional ones later. I think it's not unusual for Oxbridge applicants, to give them more time to consider options whilst waiting to see if Oxbridge accept them.

Both my DC turned down Oxford although it's my Alma Mater.
DS is in Westminster now having studied politics.
My DD wanted a campus university too.

Remember if your DD does go to Oxford they are not allowed to take a part time job. The halls are kept reasonably priced for this reason.

BTW
I was accepted at Bristol, but chose to go to a Scottish uni

I have never regretted my decision.

BTW My friend went to a uni in Wales & loved it

Your DD should make her own decision

It's worth thinking about competition for jobs after she's graduated, will there be a lot, is it a niche area. DD works for a small business in a bit of a niche field, he's found in the past that graduates who have come from anything other than the top unis, just aren't up to the job for him, also he's really looking for a first class honours. DD is the only one with a 2.1, but she went to Edinburgh and had relevant experience as extra-curricular which was available - without the later two, there's no way he could have considered her.

Haven't read the whole thread, and please don't shout me down, but I do kind of get what the OP is trying to say here. My DC is predicted 4 Astars, got all 9s in GCSEs....also has applied to Oxbridge, and not keen on Durham or Edinburgh.

DCs school is very good at getting kids to manage expectations - all pupils fully aware that Oxbridge is a lottery to a certain extent, many brilliant candidates don't make it through, and I am a big believer in that university is as much about having fun in young adulthood as it is about academia. I remind my DC of this a lot at the moment - that if Oxbridge doesn't happen they might well have a more fun time elsewhere where the workload will inevitably be less. They have applied to some brilliant RG universities also, where the offers that have come in have been a little bit lower.

BUT - and I wouldn't say this to DC - a tiny part of me worries that they might not be as stimulated or the teaching might not be quite as good if it's NOT Oxbridge 🤐. Yes, I know that other universities lead in certain subjects, but for my DCs subject - which they are absolutely passionate about and excel in - it IS the best place for it. So, if they don't get in - that's a bit of shame in some ways...

It is possible - you can leave blank choices other than the early entry choices and just add the other options before the January non-early option deadline.

Warwick is lovely. My daughter did maths there and needed 3 A* including Maths and Further Maths. It wasn’t easy to get into Warwick at all. If your daughter is “over qualified” in terms of entry requirements it will surely mean she stands more chance of obtaining a first class?

University is for life experience as much as it is about studying - it's that transitional stage between childhood and the adult world. Any one of those - fantastic - universities will give your daughter a great educational and real-world experience.

I think YANBU. At least for humanities/social sciences, Oxford and Cambridge provide a more rigorous academic experience than other universities in this country and they are more prestigious. So you're absolutely right that if you don't get in there, then yes, you are looking at somewhere that is a bit less academic. Which I agree is a bit stupid given how difficult those places are to get into. However, you can obviously work hard and do well at other well-regarded universities. Personally I would see UCL and LSE as the 'next best' in England.

If her interest is politics maybe she should be considering Unis at big cities ie Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Birmingham etc where she could broaden her experience of life and make contact with local political parties there who would introduce her to 'real life' politics, campaigning and all it means. Campus Unis can be very insular.

She is going for a Politics degree and dismissed LSE? Good luck in your endeavour!