Paying to keep your child away from certain types of other children… I don’t understand?

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I’ve seen so many threads recently bashing people who use private school as a way to remove their child from an environment with other children who may be challenging, disruptive etc.

I am completely against private education for a whole host of reasons… but surely if you send your child to a state school, even then you hope they don’t mix with the ‘wrong’ types? Ie those who are disruptive, rude, aggressive etc? Surely you also want your child as far away as possible from that?

I am absolutely amazed that there is suggestion that kids should be around that environment as it’s ’real life’ and shouldn’t be segregated for example by private education . Are people actually saying they are ok with their children sharing a classroom with kids that really aren’t interested in learning and have no values instilled in them by their parents? I will forever use the state system but if I knew my children were mixing with other children who didn’t give a shit and were disruptive, I would do all I could to keep them away from it. Isn’t that just sensible?!

I'm not really understanding what you're trying to say, OP. Yes, of course most parents want their kids to stay away from disruptive, unruly children, whether they go to private or state school. I'd have thought that was obvious.

I agree. I’d be delighted if my child had a little Boris friend.

The bottom line is that it remains legal to send one's dc to a private school. In my experience the standards of education were better. Some people don't like the fact that money can buy better things. It applies to education, housing, holidays, shoes.

I prefer shopping in Waitrose to shopping in Lidle. It's my choice. If others don't like it tough.

Where the argument vis a vis education differs however (and health) is that I have also paid significant amounts of tax towards services I chose not to use.

I wouldn’t say to someone else " it's wrong that yiu send yiur children to that dreadful, requires improvement comp because it would be inappropriate. It's the sort of comment that works both ways.

My friends' state schooled 16 year old was shocked at the idea that not everyone would have £200 spare to pay for a school trip. I don't think children pick up as much about their classmates' finances as all that to be honest.

Prejudice is never okay - unless it is against private school children and then it’s (seemingly) absolutely fine to write off a group of people with a ‘wistful sigh’. Does your daughter think is a better person than the people at the party? How did their ‘entitled’ attitudes manifest? How does she get to decide what is acceptable or not? Perhaps she needs to be less prejudiced herself!

We live in a rough area, with a lot of crime.

There's one specific group of kids I would be very concerned about my kids mixing with outside of school. They are a tiny, tiny minority. And there are fairly specific reasons why they are a problem. To do with exposure to adult drug dealers. And a local youth club with dangerously lax safeguarding. (Think similar to the Kids Company scandal)

I'm not too concerned about my kids attending the local school. Where these characters also attend. Along with lots and lots of nice normal kids.
The teachers are professionals and I trust them to manage the situation. Inside of the school walls, its a safe space.

I don't even know what you mean by bringing kids up with no values. Everyone has cultural values. It would be impossible to raise a child without values, even if you set out to do that on purpose.

I actively moved to access a prep school when I was pregnant. Both my children went to this school until secondary age. Sadly we moved both children into the 'outstanding' local academy. Our daughter was sexually assulted at 12. This school covered it up and denied it sighting our daughter's SEN. She was suffering mh issues blah blah basically calling her a liar. We sent her to a famous girls school were she was bullied both by girls and teachers. The jealousy was off the scale. She had been awarded a scholarship even after her trauma. Her best school was a 'in special measures' village school with high SEN. They really helped her but that was a school with drug issues and disadvantaged families. My friends were horrified. However the teachers were fantastic and she's recently been back to talk about her study area and upcoming PhD. I will ever be grateful to them. Interestingly she would not choose private education for her own children.

Did I achieve my aim of giving my children a better education than my sink school? I did not. However I would not want the complete disinterest my teachers showed to me. I would not send my children to my old school. I worked very hard to supplement their knowledge with learning experiences out of school. That's the difference I think and a safe, secure home to live in.

One of my motivations of not sending my kids to private school was to avoid some of the private school types 😁.
Some of my best friends did go to private school and they are obviously lovely but some of the most arrogant wankers I ever met are ex private school attendees. Can you imagine if your kids came home with somebody like Boris Johnson as a friend 😱

This

Also what some people want to avoid by choosing private is poor children.

Not disruptive kids etc. Just ones from less shiny homes. The kids from social housing, who's parents rent, who work in jobs that aren't going to come in handy when little Hugo is looking for a city internship.

"The speed with which they are ejected is very satisfying." 😂😂😂😂

I can’t believe anyone has a problem with parents choosing to move their child from a problematic school environment. Rather, I think it’s the inequality of the ability to do so. It’s unfair that some people can choose to buy their way out of the problem by choosing a private school, whilst others can’t. Private school is unfair. Disruption in classrooms is unfair. Life is unfair. No easy answers.

Reckon there’s more bad behaviour like drug taking amongst the private school types to be honest.

I’ve got 3 children. I value education beyond anything else. I studied whilst working full time when the children were little to gain two degrees. I read all the time and since they were babies to them. I ate toast to be able to give them the opportunities to do sport, learn an instrument, follow their interests.

As a family we are into museums and heritage etc (not sure that demonstrates anything).

DS1 is and always has been studious and diligent, he has just gone off to uni where he settled only once lectures started as that is what is important to him.

DS2 missed the grades needed for GCSE and is leaving a hard lesson about not putting work in, but has a wonderful group of supportive friends and plays lots of sport.

DS3 in year 9, has never read a full book. He detests reading (now diagnosed dyslexic but hate remains), he hates school and has an entrepreneurial plan and sees no need for it. He is what I would say disruptive to himself - he won’t do the work, will cheek the teacher and my phone pings every single day at 3.15 to tell me he has a detention. Him being removed from class/told off inevitably must have an impact on others in the class. Parents probably don’t want their child to be friends with him. In the reset room he makes friends with other kids like him - who he says all basically wind each other up about school and hate it more. He is a caring, lovely boy who needs some guidance in school as well as with us - we try. So hard. We feed their individual interests, we get them help if they need it, we offer advice, we put in strategies and we try to work with the school (we’ve also tried punishment in taking stuff away).

All have the same upbringing, all surrounded by different versions of success - not all academic - and yet DS3 misbehaves and causes trouble.

I really resent the idea that schools are replacing parents and cannot do it. We are working so hard at parenting!!!!

If anything, the version where you put your money into your own £1M appreciating asset and hand over house deposits to your kids (aka "passing on generational wealth") is the system that leads to long-term, entrenched wealth inequality.

But hey, you sent your kids to a "comp" so you're basically a socialist

I think you have to base your decisions on your own child’s personality. Some state school kids are feral, and if you have a sensitive child, or one that’s introvert or is intimidated by these sort of kids, or doesn’t like confrontation, then they’d get eaten alive in the state system. Plus with the current additional situation, where many parents are trying to get their kids diagnosed under the ADHD/Autism label, which then results in teaching staff having to divert their time to these children, then if you could put your kids through the private system, it’s a no brainier.

I went to a reasonably posh school until 9, I did not fit in. Straw boaters and blazers! I was quiet and needed coaxing out of myself and encouragement. They weren't interested in me as I couldn't easily achieve the level they wanted me to achieve so I was left to my own devices. I felt substandard both educationally and socially and very much the underdog. Some of those kids had everything in life and used it to abuse others or expected a free ride, they were entitled, but some were also badly neglected. And then the mass majority were just normal kids, with normal struggles/

Parents split up, the money went, I ended up at one of the roughest state schools going, the teachers got danger money. Some of the kids knew they wouldn't get anything in life unless they took it, that could be opportunity or thieving. And then the mass majority were just normal kids, with normal struggles.

And I flourished. I was interested, I just needed encouragement and they saw that and gave it. They made me feel comfortable to ask questions, challenge and learn from discussion. They helped me to understand my learning style and how to get the most out of it. I flourished.

I also flourished socially, I came out of myself, and I eventually got a degree.

Some kids in the private sector would be better off in state schools and vice versa. It depends what the problem is.

But the same can be said for anything in life. Is it fair that people can afford to buy homes instead of rent, of can afford to buy in nice areas, or who can afford to go on holiday. It all comes down to life decisions most of the time - some can afford to make life choices that benefit their family, others can’t.

On the private-school debate in general, I must admit, I do envy people who went to private school. I think it would have really suited me. I was academic and I did well at a good state school in a nice area - top A Level results, RG uni etc - but I think I would have had more friends with things in common, and I think I'd have benefited from more support and a calmer environment.

I had trouble with a couple of subjects and that was never really solved, except by giving them up before GCSEs. I think I'd have blossomed academically and socially at a private school, as I spent many years feeling under-confident, and I'd have liked the opportunity to swim during the week at a school pool and do more interesting sports than just netball, like lacrosse, which always sounded like a lot of fun to me. I think I'd have had a much nicer time and would have come out of my shell, and been stretched more. And hopefully had more confidence earlier in life.

It's true that I mixed with all sorts, but I had nothing in common with the kids who were very different from me. I can't think of any deep life lesson I learned from going to school with some kids from dissimilar interests and backgrounds. All I learnt is that when you have nothing in common with someone, you don't have a lot to talk about.

@MyNeedyKoala you agree then? Plenty of parents who chose private also live in the better areas.

You must live in a bubble. There are loads of failing state schools and the idea that the vast majority of private schools are attended by anyone of aristocratic background is laughable. Many parents I know who sent their children to private school had a thought process that went along the lines of ‘do we move away from terrible local schools and pay for a larger mortgage in a nicer area with good schools, or do we use the money saved by living here to pay for private schooling?’ For a couple it was ‘do we change jobs from being GPs in deprived areas so we can move to areas without failing schools and have a manageable commute, or go private?’

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

God I would much rather my kids mix with real humans than private school wankers, instead of learning to be an entitled knob who only thinks about themselves. Thanks.

How can you stop your kids mixing with people who “don’t want to learn” though? You’re not in the classroom to judge who they are and even if you do find out, you can’t dictate who they should hang out with surely?

The only way you can guarantee “no riff raff” is by sending them to private school or moving to an area where the houses around the school are £1m plus, therefore creating a bubble effect of richer kids / higher grades because the parents are tiger parents.

Though there can be wrong ‘uns in every school - for example with drugs - the wayward private school kids probably use coke, whereas the wayward state school kids use weed. I’ve heard stories of private school kids going wild.

My high school was rough as fuck and I ended up ok - I found my small group of nerds to hang out with. All you can do is ensure your home life is as stable and nourishing as possible and the school friends won’t matter so much.

Those 3 reasons are totally alien to me. We've just moved DS to private school to get the help for his dyslexia that he wasn't getting at state school. He now enjoys learning. And is happy.

Your post demonstrates the inherent misunderstanding that many have about private schools. Although to be fair, wind back a couple of years and I perhaps thought similarly to you. Had 2 kids in state school. Then things started going downhill for DS and now I have one in each, following lots of research into our local private schools and educating myself on what they offer.

The social climbing thing always has me confused too. DS gets the school bus. I barely know any parents never mind use the school run for some kind of social mobility. And DS private class-mates are just normal kids who live in normal houses playing Fortnite and kicking a ball around. No doubt they'll all be drug dealing soon. The MN stereotypes crack me up.

People send to their children to private schools because they think it's in the best interests of their children. Let's be honest, it generally is. You can debate what the benefits are for those children, is the education better? The resources? The privileges it brings? etc.

What's not really debatable is that for everyone else's children, & for the rest of society, they operate to reinforce inequality & restrict opportunity. That's where the core resentment really comes from.

I can't see the point in bashing parents for acting in the best interests of their children. It's the system that's the problem.

Intolerance goes both ways, it seems.