Paying to keep your child away from certain types of other children… I don’t understand?

[Reasonthis]

I’ve seen so many threads recently bashing people who use private school as a way to remove their child from an environment with other children who may be challenging, disruptive etc.

I am completely against private education for a whole host of reasons… but surely if you send your child to a state school, even then you hope they don’t mix with the ‘wrong’ types? Ie those who are disruptive, rude, aggressive etc? Surely you also want your child as far away as possible from that?

I am absolutely amazed that there is suggestion that kids should be around that environment as it’s ’real life’ and shouldn’t be segregated for example by private education . Are people actually saying they are ok with their children sharing a classroom with kids that really aren’t interested in learning and have no values instilled in them by their parents? I will forever use the state system but if I knew my children were mixing with other children who didn’t give a shit and were disruptive, I would do all I could to keep them away from it. Isn’t that just sensible?!

And can you imagine if anyone described every child in the state sector as a thuggish lout?
Why is it Ok to be dismissive, rude and generally awful to one group of society and not another?
Just wondering.

Paying to keep your child away from certain types of other children… I don’t understand?

I think what you meant to say was:
Paying to keep your child away from certain types of other children… I want to virtue signal?

This kind of post gets me really upset. Have you been IN the school you speak of? As in, taught in it/ volunteered in it/ have a close friend or family member who works in it? Because if not you don't know it at all. People presume so much about schools based on hearsay.

You can send your child wherever you like, absolutely, but don't dismiss this associated secondary in one brushstroke. I choose to work in an inner-city school in a tough, very working class area in Glasgow. Our kids absolutely learn in every lesson; they absolutely are safe & given a voice; they are absolutely & stretched & given the right teaching for them as individuals. They will see fights at times, and bullying, like in every school, there will be disruption at times, that's realistic, but overall they are getting a great education. I wouldn't be there if I didn't believe this.

Yes, there's cuts & the ramifications of that, but in essence the kids' needs are still top priority.

My own DC went to our local, urban, very mixed school. The local FB page is full of negatively & hearsay, and they both witnessed bullying/ fighting/ experienced disruption & the odd 'mental ' class, but got outstanding results & are flying at university. It's not all bad out there.

@quoque I definitely do believe people think that. A misbehaving child can be removed from a classroom in a state school & it can be hard to expel certain dc from private schools, you cannot generalise.

I hope you are adequately covered for any litigation that your attitude may incur. Discrimination in any form is wrong.
Hopefully the best candidates are aware of your recruitment policies and avoid your companies at all costs. If you discriminate about education what else are you willing to discriminate against.
DS and his mates have set up their own company while studying at uni. They have been labouring for one mate’s dad’s company and now tender for jobs when they have a weekend free. The work is very physical, basic labouring, but they will work solidly all weekend to earn decent money. They have a two week job set up over Christmas which may involve working Christmas Day to prepare a site ready for the trades to move in.
DS has been offered a job to train in site management when he leaves uni. If he doesn’t follow the uni route he will be earning twice what he could in his chosen field. The works manager had been impressed by their work ethic and willingness to just do what is asked of them. Private school is so much more than teaching confidence. A strong worth ethic is necessary too.
They have all made the connection between hard work and earning money.

Private schools have a higher % of students with SEN, because of parent seeking out the smaller classes and better pastoral and SEN provision at private schools. I think it's 20% compared to 16% at state.

This is so true. As an adult out in the 'real world' I actively avoid disruptive people. Why do parents actively seek this out for their children?

I don't think the poster's DD was generalising though was she - she was saying the specific private school students she had personally met displayed arrogant and entitled attitudes.

My own DD is seeing the same thing amongst some of the private school students at her top RG university. She's had a fair number of comments from private school students expressing surprise that she was able to get in from a very bog standard comp, for example.

Do I think this is all private school students? No. But I do think private school can lead children to think that they are better than others. That (usually expressed as "self confidence") is part of the package tha private school parents often pay for.

Not all private school kids are angels. In fact they get up to all the same sort of nonsense that state school teenagers do. It's just on a smaller scale. I know this because I work in a private school and send my kids to state school. The control my kids state school has over disruptive kids is frankly amazing and a whole lot better than when I was at the same school decades ago.

The double standards on this thread are wild. Why is it so completely acceptable to refer to a fear of ‘ private schools types’ and ‘ entitled, arrogant’ kids and to choose to use state school to avoid such awful characters?
Yet, to say that you prefer private in order to avoid disruptive kids is a hideous, stereotypical and elitist attitude??

I don’t think you’re unreasonable at all. I firmly believe that one of the greatest gifts we can give our children is to help shape their peer group.

of course I want my children to be surrounded by other curious, motivated children!

Private school is one way of doing that, as is choosing to be involved with school life (PTA / parent governor etc. You can choose to get involved with sports clubs, drama groups,
community groups or church groups (many of which are free) Or just making an effort to invest time and energy in getting to know the other parents and their children.

we have some more challenging children in my youngest son’s peer group (by which I mean bonkers behaviour rather than anything sinister) - I choose to have those children and their parents to our home for play dates and generally I find that when they’re offered interesting things to do (and the good snacks) they’re OK - and it always always helps to get to know the other parents. I recognise that this isn’t going to work as he gets older - but I am keen to establish our home as a space where my children’s friends feel welcome.

Yes, but if you could send your child to a school with much less fighting and disruption, why wouldn't you?

No, not all of them. Some are busy selling drugs 🙄

There are also private schools that specialise in SEN. Bredan School in Gloucestershire specialises in dyslexia. It is a private school with very small class sizes, the children thrive there.
It is such a shame that there are no state equivalents. But on the whole SEND are often identified earlier and help put in place in the private system. Smaller class sizes means that the children are easier to identify.

My DH has dyslexia, he is too old for it to have been recognised while young and it has had a profound affect on his working life and confidence. He has avoided promotion and many better job opportunities because of his difficulties. The digital age came too late for it to benefit him and his aversion to all things new ( learning how to use computers was really difficult) has always been a problem.

His younger brother was identified as profoundly dyslexic and received a little assistance but was able to identify a career that doesn’t rely on reading. He is also not embarrassed to declare his dyslexia so adjustments are made. DH, on the other hand, is acutely embarrassed by his dyslexia after being teased and criticised for his handwriting and spelling. To me it was obvious as soon as I tried to read a note he left me early in our relationship. Up until then he just assumed he was thick.

I strongly believe that all children should be screened early on so they can be channeled into the right environment. So many children from families were education is not a priority are missing out/written off because no one advocates for them.

I don’t want to be around certain types of people either. If they were in my workplace, I would leave.

Ah yes you can do this and then also be totally smug in your principles around state education win win

I went to private school and whilst there were some well off Rich types their were also lots of working class parents who scrimped and saved and the school had a very good scholarship scheme and assisted places for local children and there were were lots of armed forces children - so there was a very good mix from across all backgrounds. unfortunately the armed forces bases locally have now closed, the scholarship scheme was scrapped and assisted places too, the VAT will mean working class parents who might have afforded it at a push (like i could have done if id only had one child) now cant. That leaves you with just rich kids - and foreigners

Exactly. The very expensive catchment areas and also put the kids in grinds from day 1.
They are the parents who just mix with people with very expensive houses and cars and are never interested in people in a different position.
I heard many people in this category who "would never send my child to a fee paying school".

the vast majority of people who nowadays go to private school is:

1. to get their working class chip off their shoulder
2. to hope to advance socially by meeting somebody from the aristocracy or other nouveau-rich
3. To keep up with the jones’

private school attendees are not what it used to be. I went to private school, my parents went to private school (boarding), my grandparents and great grandparents went to private school (you get where I’m coming from), and looking at who is sending their kids to private schools these days, it’s changed a lot.

there are only very few exceptions where a private school is justified where a person is doing it for need rather than for social climbing (e.g. immigrants living overseas whose children do not speak the local language and so they need to go to an international (mainly English-speaking) school). In the uk, with the good state system there is, there is no benefit to private school other than points 1,2 and 3 above.

Or you can just spend ££££ on a house in the right catchment for a good school where other parents have also paid £££££ for their houses, keeping the riff raff out

Plenty of private school parents live in these areas too, it’s certainly not common in my area that people live in the “bad” parts and chose private school.

@SanctusInDistress I’m not sure that’s true. My dc will most likely go to state secondary (currently in state primary). I do think most privates offer better sports opportunities & often music ones too. Although states seem to be closing the gap in music, one of the secondaries I looked at offers tuition in 15 plus instruments.

& we live in an area where there is a myriad of sports clubs for the dc outside of school but obviously that’s not true of everywhere .

Middle-class children can be equally "rude, disruptive and agressive".

Middle-class children can be equally "rude, disruptive and agressive".

The vast majority of middle class dc are in state schools.

I agree that private education is fundamentally unfair.

It's also unfair that some parents can afford to buy a house in the catchment for outstanding state schools and some can't.

It's unfair that some parents can afford a private tutor to maximise their child's chances of getting into a grammar school and some can't.

It's also unfair that my children get to live in a nice house in a safe area when some of the families I work with are living in one room of a b&b, sofa surfing or in flats with damp, vermin and dodgy electrics.

My DC go to a state school and I also work in the state sector, but I don't necessarily believe that this guarantees they will grow up to be 'salt of the earth', socially conscious and able to confidently mix with people from all walks of life. My kids could still easily grow up into arrogant, entitled twats if I allowed that to happen. They won't, because their Dad and I make sure they are aware of their own privilege and appreciate what they have. I don't doubt that there are private school parents who do the same and I've certainly come across plenty of state educated kids who were arrogant, entitled and expected the world to bend to their will because that's how their parents raised them to think.