Paying to keep your child away from certain types of other children… I don’t understand?

[Reasonthis]

I’ve seen so many threads recently bashing people who use private school as a way to remove their child from an environment with other children who may be challenging, disruptive etc.

I am completely against private education for a whole host of reasons… but surely if you send your child to a state school, even then you hope they don’t mix with the ‘wrong’ types? Ie those who are disruptive, rude, aggressive etc? Surely you also want your child as far away as possible from that?

I am absolutely amazed that there is suggestion that kids should be around that environment as it’s ’real life’ and shouldn’t be segregated for example by private education . Are people actually saying they are ok with their children sharing a classroom with kids that really aren’t interested in learning and have no values instilled in them by their parents? I will forever use the state system but if I knew my children were mixing with other children who didn’t give a shit and were disruptive, I would do all I could to keep them away from it. Isn’t that just sensible?!

If a child or family aren’t articulately interested in education it doesn’t mean that they have nothing to offer 🫤 There are plenty of wonderful, interesting people who never enjoyed school with characteristics and qualities that make them an asset as a friend or acquaintance.

Being around people from different backgrounds than your own, with vastly different values and lifestyles than your own is incredibly valuable. Learning to cooperate with others and tolerate (maybe even absorb) other people’s beliefs and ways of life is very important.

I do not think it is a good thing to only be around people who share your values and are stable, well-off, motivated and secure. It will give your child a very warped and sheltered view of life!

Also, increasing the amount of people from affluent backgrounds where education is valued in ordinary schools can have a positive effect on the less privileged children who are in such an environment and add a bit more balance.

In short, no, I don’t think it’s right that people can pay to keep the plebs away.

My daughter recently brought home a friend from a troubled family who was a bit of a wrong-un. That ‘friendship’ was a difficult experience but boy did she learn some valuable lessons about relationships and about herself!

My dd went to a (RG) uni party recently and although she’d enjoyed it she said with a wistful sigh “…a lot of private school types there though…” and what she meant was entitled and arrogant attitudes ruining the vibe of an otherwise good fun night.

This is fundamentally the problem - if your parents pay for you to be educated with other affluent kids, it creates a cosseted enclave where there is a culture of superiority. Thinking you’re a better human being than others because of your money, influence or education is a very ugly thing and breeds prejudice and division. It’s just not ok.

One "prestigeous" private school in my town is near a flyover over a road and railway. One of the main pastimes of these little princes at lunchtimes is to line up along the bridge and spit on the cars and trains below.

It may not apply to your particular area, but it applies to some. For example parents who pay exorbitant house prices (and tutoring fees) to get their dc into a grammar school.

We had it the other way around. My DH went to a fee paying school, I went to a state comp (but in a 'naice' area). He was bullied to within an inch of his life as his parents had had to scrimp to pay the fees. The kids were ruthless and the staff were little better. In part the problem was that the other parents wanted tangible value for money and had no problem with paying for extracurriculars that my DH's parents couldn't dream of. The wealthier kids picked up quickly on my DH's 'outsider' status and made his life hell. My 'naice' area secondary school had less tolerance for snobs and bullies

No it isn’t, stop making stuff up. You expect people to believe that this is so prevalent that people talk about it online and the school does nothing about it? Righto.

Here's the thing. There was a girl in my class at school whose parents were both in prison. As you can imagine, her life was tough. I knew her. She was a friend, though not close.

Now I work in a role where the vast majority of people were privately educated. The job involves discussion of issues around tacking poverty and disadvantage. None of them have any fucking idea about even the most modest household issues eg around fuel poverty, let alone the kind of childhood/school challenges my friend had. I'm much better a the job - and, honestly, I think a kinder and more accessible person - because I do, even having only witnessed from the sidelines.

It goes without saying they are all mostly men and paid a hell of a lot more for me for the same work. But hey.

Private schools rarely expel anyone. Money pays for a lot of latitude.

From my own schooling and now educating my own children there are always an appreciable minority of kids who have appalling behaviours. Their parents are usually absent and entitled. That was just the day schools. The boarding schools are simply cruel.

Education at private schools is usually excellent - but the idea that the intake is necessarily well behaved is wrong. This class of child is usually strongly encouraged out by 16 as academics aren’t good enough.

Yep, similar for me. We could actually afford private school (at a stretch) but I just knew quite a few arrogant and entitled private school kids growing up and tgis puts me off. Children that would express horror at our shabby house, laugh at us for being poor.
Even now, we know private school kids (children of our friends), they're all lovely kids but I've noticed a few comments they've made to our children about their school better because it's a private school, they have rich friends etc. etc. The parents also like to emphasise the fact their childrens schools are better than ours. They almost seem irritated if I say our children are getting a great education at our state school.
It's really important to me that my children mix with children from all backgrounds. At our state school, there are wealthy children, those living in poverty and everything in between. The pupils reflect society, and this simply isn't the case of private schools. I know that not everyone is rich in private school, but the mix of children just doesn't accurately reflect the society we live in.
Growing up with kids from all backgrounds really shaped my world view and political beliefs. I developed empathy for those who were even poorer than us. The Conservative cabinet was made up solely of privately educated millionaires. How could they possibly understand and represent those living in abject poverty.
As for the trouble maker kids - in my experience it's only a few kids per year who really are completely off the rails. Don't make the mistake of thinking private school children are immune from bad behaviour. Growing up, it was my private school friends who started dabbling with sex, drugs, and alcohol long before we did!

From ages 9 to 12, I attended a boarding school where I frequently experienced bullying. Before this, I had been a well-behaved child, but the constant harassment and isolation changed me.

To cope with the difficult environment, I began to adopt behaviors that I previously wouldn’t have considered. I learned to lie, to steal, and to engage in other antisocial actions.

These behaviors became my way of navigating the harsh conditions, a form of survival in a place where I felt constantly threatened and alone.

This experience had a lasting impact on me, showing how an environment can alter a child's sense of right and wrong and push them to behave in ways that are out of character.

This. We put our youngest DS in private so that he could be in a calm environment without disturbing bullies for secondary. His school is really strict and kids with behavioral problems just don't get a place in school or if they somehow do they are out very fast. They have got a waiting list so don't need to keep disruptive kids for fees. Teachers are not better than in state schools but as one of the teachers told me "here we can actually do our job correctly; 1 hour of maths is just that where as in state school you have to deal with calming down the class half of the time which means less time for learning".

I'm a teacher and parent with experiences of all. Honestly, there are 'undesirables' in all schools and walks of life. It is a tired and inaccurate stereotype that sending a child to state means they will be good old down to earth types with brilliant social skills with all. It is equally inaccurate that private school kids all grow into arrogant, entitled twats who have no idea how to interact with so called normal people. I think generally, parental input and home culture by far have the biggest impact

I find it so odd that people only want to mix with 'real world' 'real people' when it's choosing a school for their kids - it's never a comment people make about choosing where they live, work or holiday - almost as if adults avoid people & environments that are challenging (whether that's antisocial behaviour, people you don't like, bullying or just limited resources) - why is it character building for children but not adults? I say this as a healthcare worker, so I see people with physical or learning disabilities, people from prison, anyone and everyone. I still dislike my colleague who doesn't stop talking and hate being in an open plan office, and have resigned from previous jobs due to stress and bullying. Challenging workplaces are usually toxic and awful - I don't see how challenging classrooms would be any different.

At our state the little kings play with knives and grope the girls. Each to their own.

Well that would be down to the friend choices your child makes rather than the school itself. Just because they attend the same school as someone doesn't mean they have to be friends with them.

So true. Why is it ok for adults to want a pleasant, non-violent workplace and friendly colleagues but it is seen as a failure for parents to want the same for their children!

I disagree with private education on a global scale but if my only choice was a school with poor behavior I probably would choose private if I could afford it. Interestingly the only two children in my son’s primary who went to private secondaries had challenging behaviour and one was a borderline bully.

Is that all of them?

Believe what you like, or not.

I didn't take photos so of course I can't prove it on an anonymous forum but it's true none the less, I used to work further along the road and witnesses it.

I don't know what action the school has or hasn't taken.

Oh, and where did I say it was "so prevalent that people talk about it online"?

I gave one example from my own experience.

I know what you mean OP. I moved my child to a private school because he was in a class where a group of boys ran riot, the teachers time was spent on the disruptive kids, his dyslexic was missed and he was getting bullied for his stammer. So yes I moved him to get away from those kids. And I don't mind admitting it.

I'm not sure how his education was going to be enriched by me taking the popular MN stance of 'he needs to mix with kids from all backgrounds'. He mixes with plenty kids in and out of school. And now can actually learn as well.

so true

See also the number of teachers on MN who loathe their jobs. Are depressed, miserable and counting down the minutes until they can leave because the student behaviour is terrible, they get assaulted and verbally abused, the few children that want to learn are bullied and barracked, parents couldn’t care less and the SLT have no teeth.

if an adult can’t cope with the situation why on earth would we expect children too.