DH putting too much pressure on DS’s education

[artylondon]

Good morning everyone - it’s my first time posting, looking for some advice.

My DH and I live in London with our lovely DS, 12.
Of course I’m biased, but I’m really proud of DS, who is a friendly, generally very happy nearly-teenager. He is bright and really articulate and engaged in conversation, but he has never been very focused at school or particularly interested with more fact-based subjects like Sciences & History. No learning difficulties, but he has always struggled with Maths particularly.

However…my DH has always been much more concerned by his academic record. He’s from a very posh, very high-achieving family, where everyone is Oxford-educated and went to the same very intense private schools. He thinks DS needs more focus / structure / tutoring to do well. This is particularly intense where we live (much more DH’s natural background) where a lot of parents pay for tutoring for exams and entrance to competitive schools. I’m sure Mnetters are familiar! It’s coming to a crux as DS moves to senior school next year.

DH’s family are also, I think, putting a lot of pressure on DH to do this and are paying for school fees. I obviously want a good life for DS too, but I think it’s fine for him to enjoy his strengths and just to get what he needs in school to live a full life when he is older.

I’m from a much more ordinary background and this feels ridiculous and too much pressure, but it feels incredibly normalised for people like DH.

My DH is otherwise close with DS and they have a really good relationship. This is the main point of tension.

Your husband is just doing what comes naturally to him.
With you also as the other parent, your son will be fine.
He has a close relationship with you both and you will both notice anything that is worrying.

I would say maths was the opposite of a fact based subject.
When you say 'struggles' with maths do you mean heading for a 6 not an 8, or under a 4?

Thank you - I also wanted to add, this can be quite stressful at times. For example, DS’s maths tutoring sessions just used to make him miserable really, and I feel unnecessarily.

I am totally aware this is a first-world problem. I’m trying to raise DS to be aware of social / political issues as well and to have a more balanced view of the world. I’m very fortunate because of meeting DH, but I was also very happy with the simplicity of my ordinary family life growing up.

I don’t think either of you is being unreasonable but I tend to towards your DH’s view of things. There’s obviously a line but academic performance is really important to his future life and prospects, and at this point he really only has one chance at it. I don’t see any issue with getting him some extra help if he’s struggling with certain areas - he will thank you in the long run. So long as it doesn’t become so high pressure and stressful so as to be unhealthy.

Yes, that wasn’t the right phrasing. I just mean he finds things that are theory-based or fact-based to be not very interesting. As well as art he loves reading, but then his essay technique in English doesn’t always reflect this interest. He’s not doing GCSEs yet but he has had Cs quite often, or the equivalent of. It takes him quite a lot of work to get a B (or equivalent). School have suggested 5 for GCSE

I don't understand why you would plan a baby with someone who has wildly different values to you without coming to a firm conclusion about these issues.

No do not let your husband drive your son to misery trying to make him achieve academically. If your kid can't pass an 11+ without tutoring, they have no business in such an academic institution. Regardless of how posh, rich or educated your family are.

At the risk of sounding harsh, it doesn't sound like your son will get into an elite school. Or even a second rank school. Your dh will probably have to reset his expectations.

Based on this, it actually does sound like your son needs some additional help and tutoring to help grasp concepts more. He may also need to learn how to study in a way that is suitable for him. Just because one math tutor didn’t work out doesn’t mean you should avoid it from now on. Think of tutoring as teaching him resiliency not necessarily being high pressure. I think your husband is actually right.

Personally feel there's nothing wrong with valuing education and encouraging your child but it has to be within the scope of their capability.

If your child is on track to get less than a 4 in either English or maths I would definitely be sorting tutoring no matter how miserable it made them as it really really does limit their choices after GCSEs.

You may not want your child to be miserable but if they are told by sixth form or college that they cannot do the course they want to because they don't have the qualifications s they will be much more miserable

If they are on track to pass English and maths by a reasonable margin I would be less fussed.

OP what does your son aspire to for his future?
If he sees himself going to uni, he'll need to secure some grades higher than a 5, in the subjects he wants to do at a-level. Most schools will ask students to have at least a 6 in a subject they want to study in 6th form and realistically they need more like a 7+ if they are hoping to secure A's and B's at A-level.
Ultimately it comes down to what your son is hoping he can do, and whether thats realistic with his current academic outlook. Maybe some frank conversations around this, establishing which sorts of job he'd need for eg a degree for, and which would be more suited to a less academic pathway, could help get everyone on the same page on this?

But he's 12, isn't he already in his secondary school? It's just a question of whether he can take advantage of the work and what GCSEs etc he heads for.

Your DH might just have to accept he's not an Oxbridge kid, it can be hard for people who got a lot of self worth from academics to appreciate there are other paths. Whatever you do with DS this needs to be a big conversation with your DH and it'll likely take various forms and need to be revisited at different moments over years. Just listen and try to understand, but also expect the same of him.

Your work is twofold - first work out why you're uncertain about the academic path. Is there any part of you rejecting it because you feel a bit intimidated by it, and find it unfamiliar, you are feeling inadequate? I detected a hint of being overly humble but also annoyed in your post. And if you do that thinking, and come out genuinely sure your approach is better, be confident about your philosophy because you have a legitimate point of view. Then the second part is to make your case clearly to DH and not be shouted down. Oxbridge etc gives you a confidence to put your point and you have to match that confidence because your argument is just as strong!

If it's a question of needing to pass another exam now to get into a school, I think you should tutor - but presented to DS as "take the chance to not narrow down his future opportunities" in case he finds something he is really into later. People at 12 aren't always the stars they can become at 15, 16, 18. One of the hardest things about our current system is that if you aren't the finished article really really early they think you're not academic. I had no discipline until I was about 16 but was clever. Under today's selections I'd have got nowhere yet I ended up with a first in PPE at Cambridge.

The previous poster who says "if you need to be tutored you shouldn't pass an 11+" has absolutely no idea about the volume and level of work, complexity of syllabus, and exam technique required for the London selectives today. There's no way any school, even private schools, prepares children comprehensively for it; you either have to personally monitor the hour-plus homework daily and six papers over the half term week, marking and corrections, etc, or you get someone to help you do that. Or as most people I know are doing, you do both. It's a hugely ridiculous competition.

Hmm. I’m generally somewhere in the middle of your two approaches I think; as a teacher if someone’s getting a 5 with absolutely no effort (which is what it sounds like) I’d be frustrated as they’re clearly more capable and could do much bette which has an impact on their next stage and so on.

especially maths and English are worth making a bit more of a fuss about because they’re limiting; if he continues with little effort, the work gets harder, he loses some of the understanding as he moves through years 9 and 10 and before you know it he’s slipped under a pass because he doesn’t have a solid foundation. It’s obv not inevitable but I’ve seen it so often that kids coast through then in September of y11 decide they want to do better and it’s really hard, as they have shaky understanding of the basics, have to catch up and don’t have the knowledge of how to learn.

that last one is also particularly important. If he has a good work ethic and comes to understand how he learns well, then he’ll do great on life - but now is the easiest time to start learning those skills

Except that he doesn't just have one chance at it. He can finish school, go to work, do an apprenticeship and even go to university as a mature student at which point his school education will no longer be relevant. This is the path I took and it worked out brilliantly for me. I was also told by my parents that I will miss my one and only chance to do well in life if I don't try harder in school. Yet, here I am - a school drop out with two degrees.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and kind responses! I’m just replying now

yes - this is also slightly the issue I think. He’s always got away with not quite reaching his potential I think. I do think he coasts somewhat on being bright and the fact that people like him. I think he can see he’ll always have a safety net. When I was growing up, my parents looked after me, but I knew they wouldn’t be able to support me + my siblings financially, e.g. gift a house deposit or use connections to get me a job. I think I’ve been very comfortable, and also need to get him into a space where he has to learn a bit more resilience.

I think he sounds like he needs some help regardless tbh.

He’s at a prep school at the moment. And yes - the ‘volume and level of work required for the London selectives’ - it’s so intense. This is my issue: if it were just a case of encouraging DS to work a bit harder, I’d be Ok with that. I do support him in focusing more on his school work. But it takes SO much effort and vigilance to ‘manage’ these children to the level of competitive London private school parents - and DH seems to value this much more than I do.

I think he would love to go to Art school, and he does do very well in art. However, as an artist myself I’m also aware a lot of the work involves business, self-employment, marketing etc. I’ve managed this myself … but tbh my DH has improved things a lot by helping me on this side since we got together. I’m now thinking I’m probably not setting a very good example in this way.

@artylondon sounds like your son does need extra help though? To be at private school at still getting such low grades with tutoring isn't promising.

Be happy your husband is very invested in your son's success.

Sadly the way the education system is set up the next 5 years for your son is crucial

There's a world of difference between academic success and just about passing his gcses.

Given the update that he might not actually pass, a 5 is a pass, so he is just on track to get that. And you say he's bright and at a good school with good teachers.

Then it really does seem like he might need extra help and support.

I’ll catch up with the thread but I just wanted to congratulate you OP on being so happy and proud of your back ground under what just he quite pressuring circumstances to see it as lesser. You must have such a lovely family and your DS is lucky!

@artylondon and I bet your husband pays all the bills as opposed to your art career?

Barely passing with private school and tutors typically means a child is not "naturally' academically bright...

@Tiedyesquad "Your work is twofold - first work out why you're uncertain about the academic path. Is there any part of you rejecting it because you feel a bit intimidated by it, and find it unfamiliar, you are feeling inadequate? I detected a hint of being overly humble but also annoyed in your post. And if you do that thinking, and come out genuinely sure your approach is better, be confident about your philosophy because you have a legitimate point of view. Then the second part is to make your case clearly to DH and not be shouted down. Oxbridge etc gives you a confidence to put your point and you have to match that confidence because your argument is just as strong!"

This is so helpful, thanks. I think there is probably an element of this going on! I was trying to articulate it to myself but I didn’t want it to sound like DH is controlling, because he really isn’t. But he is a bit older than me, and he is better at organising stuff.