To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

And what kind of state school do your kids go to? What's it's GCSE pass rate? The FSM ,%? What are the behaviour and exclusion figures like? What sort of kids do you have? Are they reasonably bright and socially confident? Decent looking or sporty? I totally agree that most state schools can be fine for many many kids. Bit not all of them and not all kids. Until the state is prepared to fund and support the kinds of small, pastorally strong, non selective place my kids go to, I have no choice but to drive myself into debt to pay fees.

So what makes the private so attractive that private is aspired to by many, that's what state need to get to grips with.

Behaviour policy that's workable, behave badly in private, they're out, it's up to parents to sort, not local authority, smaller classes generally but not always, so more facilities, teaching staff, curriculum to stretch, not working at slowest pace, but support for slower learners.
Expectations in class for socially bottom and top, judging, that as having non achieving in life parents means child can't be very bright and capable.

Extracurriculars, how to provide the same to Jay from dad working at Tesco, mum in home care on UC top ups and Hugh whose consultant surgeon parents can afford, music, drama, sport etc..
Schools catering for different talent, like sport (Millfield,), Drama RADA, Music Purcell do..
Wider provision of state boarding for those currently needing boarding. The provision of state SEN schools would need expanding.

One size doesn't and never will fit all.

@Unsrr thank you for this thread. It is the first example I’ve seen of a curious and polite discussion of this topic
My DC attends a private secondary school. This was not planned but a sudden move after unmanaged (by school) and unmanageable (due to SEND) in yr 7. Rurally it the private school was the only option. We are one of the families who cannot afford it (16 yr old car anyone) but sacrifice and borrow to meet our child’s needs. The VAT may be unamanagable. I’m afraid.
However I can see the argument for having a single system. BUT this is not the way to achieve it.
I wonder if a single Ed system (without faith schools too) would give greater equality of prospect to children. As you say schools will be different and house prices will determine entrance to some better schools. But at least it would be more even. BUT to achieve this would take decades as the state sector would need to be fully funded to level up, rather than the current sudden levelling down. This is equivalent to the Tories closing SureStart, hitting kids most.
what makes me really angry is this Gov show more respect to the Vaping industry giving them 2 yrs to adjust before VAT, but kids get no time to prepare for a major disruption to their education. Disgusting

*unmanageable bullying

There should be no private schools. All schools should provide the best possible education. The quality of your education should not depend on how much money you have and children of all parts of society should mix together. Look at countries like Finland, they manage it.
I don´t understand how anyone can support a system with private schools to be quite honest.

I went to private school. Categorically not worth it in my opinion. My friends who went to state school all left with a much better work ethic than my private school friends and have secured much better jobs as a result. Facilities were good if you were good at sport (I wasn’t) but I truly don’t think the teaching was any better or I gained anything from it that I couldn’t have gained from state school. I have no interest in sending DC’s to private school.

maybe communism is the way to go?🤐

Well one reason is right there in your post OP. The idea of some 7 year olds bring 'in awe' of the education other children are receiving has no place in a society I want to be part of and actually upsets me. The sheer unfairness of the inequality of opportunity, that means no matter how much the 7 year old you could offer, you'd never be able to compete on a level playing field with children who's parents bought them advantage. I don't want to live in a society where the positions of power and influence are disproportionately occupied by people who's parents may have have paid to elevate their mediocrity. I want all children to have a fair chance.

The growing problem with state schools is poor parenting. Kids starting school in nappies is one example of this.

Who wod be a teacher in a state primary or secondary? Not me!

The ‘real world’ is entirely constructed to benefit privately educated darlings with RP voices. The doors magically open for them. Of course your kids have been successful - it wasn’t by chance … 🙄

Well seems those people who have issues that private gives kids too much privilege have nothing to worry about. A waste of money and state schools kids are doing better.

I see no reason then to abolish private schooling.

Not against them as such but could just never afford one for my children. However I am paying for private GCSE maths tuition for my son who struggles in this area and have to say he is flourishing. If I could afford a private education on par with this quality I would move my children in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't send my kids to one, but I respect that some people can afford to and want to do so. Nearly always for positive reasons, because they think it will give their child a better chance of success. I'm of the view that everyone should have an equal chance. But I would never pass judgement on someone's schooling choices.
I'm very anti boarding schools. But again I accept they exist. I would probably vocalise my negative view on that a little, in a respectful way. But more trying to understand their motivation.

I don’t agree with the simplicity of people saying “same level of education should be available to all” it isn’t at all that simple! Or that black and white even.

Lets for example look at it this way: child A goes to local state primary school in a class of 30, the teacher is overstretched because he/she has to teach 3 kids with EAL that cannot speak a word of English, 4SEN kids with needs, 2 kids kicking off and have severe emotional needs, etc etc. the teacher cannot stretch the most able kids or even work with the average kids as her attention is on all the others. No matter how amazing the teacher is there is no way they can deal with them all. Teacher will leave the high achievers alone as they “just get on with it without causing issues”, the average kids just get on with it too.

Child B: the school is private and has an entrance exam at (4+ or 7+) so already the students entering will have to pass this so this means the disruptive kids won’t pass, they will have to understand English to be able to complete the papers at 7+ and at 4+ they will need to communicate during the assessment day so no EAL, the kids entering will have to understand and access the curriculum so already the standard of the lesson is a better environment for learning. Teacher can focus on all kids equally, the teacher in this scenario may not even be a better teacher but is able to teach better and class will do better as the environment is drastically different.

so my point Is the quality of education is not important - even crap teachers will do amazing if environment is right.

I need to add so much and make other points but I don’t have time right now. Hope people can understand my ramblings. And just to add I have nothing against EAL students, I myself am a second generation whose parents spoke no English when they came here!

Additionally, parents of children at private school have more resources than those of state school - money, power, status, connections. Those people have the most influence in the world. But they have no motivation to use that money, power, and influence to try and fight to improve education for all as they just send their own kids private.

My youngest DS went to an independent school because they tend to be smaller and quieter so they're good for autistic children.

The head teacher was a very down-to-Earth man from Leeds who openly said that he believed that all children should receive the education and pastoral care that his school provided.

I do think that parents in my situation (scrounging money from family through desperation) should get the money back that the government have saved to put towards the fees.

To be fair, that is the same as most of the state schools. The state village primary I went to had white people from very similar socio economic backgrounds all from the same small catchment area. The London state secondary schools I worked in were not particularly diverse. One E London school I worked in was all girls, 98% same religion and virtually all from the same ethnicity. When I worked in one in SE London it was a similar situation: small catchment, faith school (so same religion) and single sex.

My dc have been in state and now in private. Parents, grandparents of children who have only ever been in private have no idea what is going on in state schools.
I know people who have never set foot in a state school. They have been happy to vote Tory because they do not experience the shit show of many public services . The inequality breeds further inequality.
I am very fortunate to be able to afford private- I wish an excellent education was available to everyone. I am also very happy to pay more tax if state schools are improved as a result.

I can understand why people do privately educate if the local schools to them are rubbish, however the people I’ve come across who work at private schools or attend them are rude, snotty, arrogant and talk down to you.

theres a number of privately educated kids on my street (2 of the neighbours work at the local private school) and they’re all not very nice people.

i also know someone who works in the kitchen at the same local private school and she says you ask a child where they went on holiday and they will reply “Oh it was nowhere you would know” 🤣

Yeah you will get someone kids who aren’t like that, but I’ve yet to come across one!

This is entirely delusional. State school children and private school children aren’t different species. From DS’s state primary school class of 26 children, about eight went on to one of two private secondaries this year. There is absolutely nothing to distinguish those eight from their peers — two are DS’s friends, whom he still sees a lot of, and they’re nice, ordinary children, just like the other six who went private, and the 18 who went on to state secondaries.

I'm not against them. My children are privately educated.

But I don't see why they should be subsidised with tax breaks.

We can afford private and choose instead to send our child to an underperforming school

I would never ever admit this to anyone even on an anonymous website

The goal should be to make ALL schools better. Not such a vast divide.

Very well written.

More telling even are the copious threads by teachers stating how horrific it is to be a teacher in a state school now, because of kids behaviour. These behaviours are learned from home, abolishing private schools can’t fix bad parenting.