To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

We get told that VAT on fees doesn't matter because only 4% of children are at private schools But the VAT paid by the parents of this 4% will magically transform the state sector. The school my son was at had a music department and a classics department. Most Scottish state schools don't even a single teacher, let alone a department. You're in cloud cuckoo land if you think that's going to change.

Private schools will now be able to reclaim the VAT they pay on everything they buy which they couldn't do before.

It's driven by spite and envy.

This is already happening. Private schools are more expensive now so more families are now moving into the right catchment area pushing up house prices. For us it’s cheaper to send DC to a private secondary than to move to the right catchment area (and we would have to downsize). No brainer!

Everyone I know who has been to state school is bitter, entitled and is unaspirational. Ok, not true, I am being sarcastic. But this poster clearly has an inferiority complex and is unfairly pigeonholing us privately educated folks.

I also disagree with exposing children to those from all walks of life. There are definitely some types that no child should have to associate with.

Any one who sends their child to a state faith school without being of that faith is a complete hypocrite.

It would be great if every child could be provided with a similar education but this will never happen.

Blaming the private sector is such misplaced anger and vote grab headline - with no substance.

If the state school available is excellent/good, then parents don’t go private (unless they feel specific needs are met privately: music, sen, sports, religion, curriculum).

IMO -

1. tabloids love to stoke division, fear hate for clicks which are converted to advertising dollars. Proof is how often the headline doesn’t match the story, or there are no facts “well placed source” “Royal expert”
2. Diversionary political tactic (vat) shifts the blame /attention to parents rather than the terrible state of many state-funded school onto the people who should get blame: Ofsted, gov ministers, education authorities.
3. Private schools relieve government of funding 554,250 pupils. Should be applauding these parents for saving gov from funding the education for 1/2 million children per annum. (7,460 x 554,250 …. )

“Hiring more teachers” is no plan to improve educational outcomes, “fixing crumbling buildings” doesn’t improve outcomes (Quotes are Labour promises) … birth rates are dropping - more teachers doing what? If Labour guaranteed smaller classes, better results, they might have my attention. But core of better education is … better education. Not more teachers, and not repairs.

What other country does Gov & Media hate on private education???

I also disagree with exposing children to those from all walks of life. There are definitely some types that no child should have to associate with.

In parts of London and Edinburgh the idea that being at a state school exposes children to those from all walks of life is risible.

Not really. Private school parents are saving the government a bundle of expense. Nobody stops to think about that. I get the grammar school effect though. In an ideal world, parents wouldn't have to pay for their child's education, but schools have been stripped to the bone. There are literally no resources left - in some schools the PTA is raising money for work books and pencils. Imagine how much more it would cost the tax payer if every private school child switched to state schools.

So so common in my area. I know at least 4 families who have done it (turned their kids into Catholics) ridiculous. Some adviced me to do the same (I am from a Catholic family) but could never do this.

The Taliban ! And Boko Haram !

I don't know any other countries that try to restrict the education parents provide for their children.

What an awful thought.

Nor should public money be wasted doing things any parent should be doing, eg toilet training, dressing themselves nor should pupils have their education ruined by ill-bred scrotes who stop them from learning and are encouraged to do so by their equally ill-bred breeders. If schools could just teach standards would rocket but all we get is an encyclopedia of excuses for appalling behaviour.

I agree with this completely. I went to a not great school from a working-class background but still did well there, and so thought that my children who are both bright would be okay, but our catchment secondary school is on another level of not great - all aspects, academic, pastoral and extracurricular. The surrounding state schools seem marginally better but they are all full due to the current large birth years and new housing developments, so the catchment one is our only option.

We tried to stick with the state school but things got so bad there that we ended up moving DC1 to private part way into year 10 and are planning to move DC2 ahead of it to avoid the same potential scenario. I appreciate that we have an advantage over people at our catchment school who can’t afford to go private, but we can barely afford it ourselves - a number have decided to home school for the same reasons, which isn’t an option for us.

I think that all children should have an equal right to education and feel hypocritical using private education but we felt backed into a corner over it. I do resent that I am now going to have to pay extra tax on top of what I already pay for schooling because I was given no encouragement or financial help to progress in life and have worked hard to get where I am from basically nothing - but still can’t afford to buy a house in an area with better schools, so it’s this or risk our DC ending up with poor or no GCSEs.

Not against them at all. I did originally agree with the tax on fees. However I changed my mind after finding out that so many parents of children with SEN sacrifice a lot so that their kids can have an accessible education.

I'm conflicted; on the one hand I am opposed to private education because of the privileges it perpetuates but on the other hand, I understand why some families choose independent schools. Parents are ultimately responsible for their children so it makes sense that they will find the best schools for them. For my SEND kids, state schooling was shockingly bad and knowing what I now know, I would have also sent them to a local private school if I'd had the means. Sadly there wasn't a local school and I didn't have the means, so I had to home educate instead though that decision was also driven by my DC needing care. Nevertheless, that situation should never have occurred if our children had been supported from the outset so for me the issue is less about private schools but about the quality of state schooling and why its failing so many YP like mine.

I would 100% guarantee that abolishing private schools will not improve state schools one iota. To think it would is delusional and putting far too much faith and trust in governments.

Imagine how much more it would cost the tax payer if every private school child switched to state schools.

I'm in Edinburgh. 25% of children go to private schools. There is no way Edinburgh Council wants or could cope with its school roll increasing by a 1/3 if they all moved.

More money does entitle state school parents to move to a better catchment area and enroll their child in a middle class dominated state school. How are you going to stop this from happening?

I am absolutely opposed to private schools, it puts certain children at a significant advantage than other children just because mummy or daddy or rich grandparents etc can fork out an eye watering amount of money each year - the playing field between private and state school kids is not even comparable from reception onwards. Why should some children benefit more than others? Why do my kids have a school that is being knocked down due to RAAC and they are all in portacabins whilst the private school next door has amazing facilities, a swimming pool, huge playing fields and kids who look like they are from an Enid Blyton book.

This can go the other way - the private school I went to had a very strong religious ideology and I think the state system is far safer from that perspective

Im not against private schools. I can totally understand why parents would want to give their children the best education they can.

But I am sad and disappointed that not every child gets the same level of education. There are some very talented kids, from poorer backgrounds, in not so great schools, who are being overlooked.

I just wish every child have a level playing field.

I really don’t think that the way I choose to educate my children is anyone else’s business, so whether others are “for” or “against” private school is completely irrelevant from my perspective. What I do care about is the fact that after years of poor standards at most state schools this government is fomenting politics of jealousy by making private school less accessible to more people. It’s just a populist move intended to win the favour of their political base, who want to soak the rich (or whoever they view as doing better than they are). That won’t raise education standards and the reality is that either as many children as possible need to get the best possible education (wherever they get it) or this country will fall by the wayside in the global competition for business, resources, etc. Bright children without funds can also attend private school - they all have bursaries. So ultimately this policy is stupid and the impact will not include more social mobility or equality for anyone.

Just curious, for those who say countries like Finland manage great state education without private schools, are you happy to pay the same tax rates to achieve this?

In Finland the 30% tax rate kicks in at equivalent of £25,000 earnings with 34% for earnings over £42,000. Their 40% rate doesn’t kick in until £75,000 but it means lower earners pay a lot more tax in Finland than in the UK.

I’d be more than happy to pay additional tax to go towards education, but it still won’t make a jot of difference to parental attitudes.

And you think that your child's school will improve if there were no private schools? Or that there is VAT on school fees?

The reason your child's school is terrible has nothing to do with the fact private schools exist. The parents at those schools pay tax and Council Tax. Why don't you complain about the people who aren't using that tax properly.

The VAT from 4% of parents isn't going to solve anything at your child's school

@RobinStrike I think that this a personal vendetta on the part of Reeves etc al.
They are pressing ahead despite the fact it's been proven not to work in other countries.
Did you see her face as she delivered those parts of the Budget? Vindictive.

As for charity v business it's not clear cut, is it?
Bursaries/scholarships/partnerships between State and private (Marlborough is one example), letting state schools use facilities Vs profit.

It would be quite interesting if everyone in local private schools started phoning the local state schools to ask about places. I wonder how they would cope?

We applied for a State school place for our eldest to see what we'd get. We were offered a place in a faith school. I think this is more of an issue because some people wouldn't have a choice but to send them there. We absolutely despise Christianity as an ethical system and do not want our children interacting with religious leaders or being told what we see as fiction is fact. Despite this, we are forced to prop up this system through our taxes. The churches may own the land/building but tax payers fund the teachers etc. What's worse is that in other schools children are accepted/rejected based on the "faith" of their parents. This is the system that's most unfair, but people don't seem to have an issue with it.

Talking of ideology, it's always been a principle that education shouldn't be charged.

I'm against private schools in principle because all children should have access to a decent education, I don't like the concept of paying for advantage, and it only benefits children who are already privileged in many ways. However, I can also understand why people pay for education when our system is floundering and so completely underfunded.