Being 'held hostage' by "trans" teenage kids

[TryingToGetOrganised2]

In my day, we were goths and emos.

Nowadays, it's gender expression. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% behind the kids that truly feel they were born in the wrong body, but oh for goodness sake, it's not half the flipping population?!

There are a lot of kids who really have gender dysphoria, who I really feel for and support. However, I'm so fed up of being told I'm a transphobe, because I dare question and gently encourage soemone to unpick where their feelings come from. (Read: my own 17 year old son, who is autistic and doesn't know where he fits in the world)

The main military operation is my 16 year old daughter, who is, on the whole, a wonderful human whom I adore. She's just so far down this road of 'you can be anything you want, sod biology' that anyone who asks a question, is shot down and cut off, for having a (possibly) more rounded, adult perspective. She can't see further than her own underdeveloped frontal lobe, and it's driving me insane.

Of course, I'm presenting, gentle, measured, acceptance mum (which, of course - I truly am, if that's who you truly are!) But I feel like she's pushing my son into a lifestyle because he's questioned who he is. Am I being unreasonable to feel frustrated? Or should I suck it up and encourage my boy to be a girl, even though I don't really think it's what he actually wants?

Please be gentle. I've got 3 kids with autism and adhd, amd, having both myself, it's the blind leading the blind. I'm exhausted and just need a bit of support in either direction.

I just reread the OP and was struck dumb by this bit ...

Am I being unreasonable to feel frustrated? Or should I suck it up and encourage my boy to be a girl, even though I don't really think it's what he actually wants?

I appreciate that the OP is just discussing ideas and she doesn't actually want to do this, but ...

How did we EVER get to the point where anyone would think this to be a reasonable position? I honestly can't wrap my head around this. That's not a criticism of the OP, but the bizarro world we've found ourselves in

I wonder what they'll say about this period when they look back on it from some future point?

He's part of the Manosphere like Tate and Shapiro

See I prefer to judge people on what they actually say themselves as individuals rather than on who they are associated with or adjacent to. It's such a poor argument to say "he's part of this group" rather than grappling with his actual words and ideas.

This. Its sad and dangerous, this push into stating you are trans and in 'wrong body'. Your poor son. Your daughter is being unreasonable. Her brother isn't some fad or social ideology guinea pig

Indeed, a lot if the trans ideas on what is a girl or boy is very regressive.

This too.

You don't have to encourage or discourage anything. Just let them express themselves however they like. Once they are adults they will either grow out of it like most goths did or they will be one of the genuine ones you refer to and will live life as another gender. As long as they're not doing anything permanent there's no harm to anyone

Another thing to consider. I doubt your daughter would be acting on this consciously, but there could be a degree of social currency for her in having a trans sibling.

You need to minimise her influence here. Her brother's identity is absolutely none of her business.

When you think about exactly who it is that benefits when children are kept with prepubescent bodies or pubescent bodies, it is a chilling thought.

Even if it is only indirectly benefitting.

And the children themselves are not the people benefiting.

Then there are the ‘all right jack! Idealists’. On FWR there was a male transitioner who declared it was absolutely fine for a child to end up with no sexual function (despite that male having their sexual function due to late transition ) because ‘didn’t we know that being asexual is a good result too!’. All because that male adult didn’t pass and that was that male adult’s proirity and therefore all children transitioner should have puberty blockers whenever they said they were trans. The narcissism was very disturbing.

@Yesiknowdear this is also what we did. I was pretty upfront about what medical intervention actually entailed. My dd was younger than yours at the height of this, but now at 13 the, quite frankly absurd, idea, that she was actually a male, seems to have subsided. Thank goodness! She's clever, and different, but like your dd, comes from a long line of women who always have been.

Aye. There's a reason the rainbow mafia are so wedded to getting these asexual ad nauseum sexual identities into the LGBTQIA++ alphabet soup. In preparation for the adults with childlike bodies with no sexual function.

But hey, transphobia and screenshots, that's what is important here.

Tell your daughter she sounds like a religious zealot, no better than someone trying to send a gay kid to conversion therapy.

Your poor DS.

My Whippet DEFINITELY identifies as a Wasp.
She is called “ Waspy W ( her name)”

I'm with you Op, and completely support kids who want to explore their gender expression. What is totally wrong though, imho, is the encouragement and availability of medical intervention. Who knows what the long term impact may be.

Totally agree. It’s horrifying and mind boggling.

There are MANY parallels with incelism and trans ideology. If you are unwilling to see this, you aren't paying enough attention.

No it didn’t. Name any other ‘teen subculture’ which has resulted in the mayhem trans issues have caused. Name any other that has resulted in teens being allowed to mutilitate themselves in the name of gender identity.

Indeed, some piercings, tattoos or different clothing is a little different than chest binding then lopping off perfectly healthy breast tissue, taking puberty blocking hormones so your body doesn't develop as it should to adulthood. It's quite sick. One day we will look back. The harm done both physically and mentally. The court cases. The helping children to do harm to themselves for an ideology... 😥

But Jordan Peterson doesn't belong to either of those groups?

He's everything like them. He has a big incel following.

Oh. Well. I have read posts from supposedly highly educated posters who have actively dismissed the brutality of children and young vulnerable people getting surgery. To them, having a brutal double mastectomy is supposedly to be compared to a person having a knee replacement.

Of course, they reject the ‘but the knee replacement is a diagnosable medical need’ with ‘resolving gender distress is life saving’! And then the posters declare there is plenty of evidence to support this, but can never produce one study and tell us to go find our own research. After years of having this discussion there is still no evidence that these medical treatments for children improve long term life outcomes.

And yet, posters continue to declare that gender affirming only treatments are the only option, usually on AIBU threads not in FWR threads, and to suggest otherwise is transphobic and hateful.

By the way, this type of action by the Scouts does not help at all.

https://archive.is/BFCr2

From woggle to woke, Scouts aged eight play 'pronoun' game using animal cards featuring 'non-binary' butterflies

“The movement has been accused of indoctrination for encouraging youngsters to play a 'fun' game called Pronoun Pairs using animal cards.”

“It features Billy the butterfly, who is 'non-binary' and uses the pronouns they/them, Leslie the ladybird, who identifies as female and uses 'she/her' and Sam the dog, who is male and is referred to as he/him.
A second set of cards features an activity and, to win a card, scouts have to 'say a sentence linking the character to the activity by the correct pronouns'.”

“Scouts are also encouraged to state their own preferred pronouns, and leaders should use 'gender-neutral language' such as 'sibling' rather than brother or sister, or 'parent', 'carer' or 'grown-up' rather than 'mum and dad'.”

@ThatWarmJadeSeal @RedToothBrush

saying Jordan Peterson has a big incel following is such a weak argument. What is it that JP has actually said that you object to? Can you give an example or are you just listing who he is associated with?

He is not an incel. He is very happily married. I watched an interview with him describing his wife's conversation to Catholicism and was very moved by his clear love for his wife.

He's not an incel. He's a Christian with Christian values.

Some incels might latch onto things like him saying women have been duped into thinking they can have it all. But thats arguably a fair statement.

He doesn't hate women.
He's a very intelligent and succinct man. And although I disagree with some if his opinions (eg: as a childfree woman) it doesn't make him a bad person.

Incels hear what they want to hear.

One thing he said is that women have never been opposed, men just work harder.

I've heard some utter batshittery on here but this takes the biscuit.

So we cannot now read research done by an experienced and qualified professor of psychology because some weird little men who can't get laid have misunderstood him?

You need to tell your pals to clean their damn rooms.