Very bizarre afternoon and feel out of sorts

[Iwashopingnottobreakmyduck]

Drove 3 hours to visit MIL with DH and older children.

Walking back from the pub - met a man in a jacket, sweatpants and hat. He asked if we could call an ambulance, I asked why and he said he felt dizzy and started to collapse. DH phoned an ambulance. The guy told me his name, age and said he had epilepsy. He collapsed on the ground and started to fit violently.

An A and E consultant also walking past put him in recovery and numerous people stopped and asked to help. 45 minutes waiting in the freezing cold for an ambulance. Occasionally he came round and ‘fitted’. My daughter gave up her coat for his head support.

The ambulance arrived 45 minutes later and we were promptly told it was all a big con. This man is well known to them. He had appeared in court over it - calling ambulances out etc and abusing paramedics etc

We stood back and sure enough after the paramedics said they weren’t taking him to hospital and told him to get up and that he had enough attention etc he started being abusive to them and got up and we were shocked.

According to ambulance staff he is not either mentally ill or epileptic like he told us, that’s what they said.

DH has driven home and I feel very out of sorts. I had my head down listening to his breathing and he had drooled all over my daughter’s coat I held his hand for 45 minutes. No alcohol or drugs involved. According to a local man he does this every few days and there is a court order to stop him from doing it and they have sentenced him on previous ocassions. The police may be in touch with us. DH says he feels upset and used and of course was on the phone to 999 for 45 minutes, a crew was diverted from a real emergency. Daughter is pretty upset by it. Even the A and E doctor was taking his pulse etc - he didn’t know him as didn’t work at the local hospital.

I said to DH that whatever his needs are - they aren’t being met. I don’t know the answer or why. Or what society can do. But I feel very out of sorts.

*infra Ned patterns ...

Was meant to say *ingrained patterns ...

@Iwashopingnottobreakmyduck and all on this thread, if ever this situation happens, always try to find out if the person is present or former serving military.

If so there is ring-fenced government funding which can be accessed through SSAFA the Armed Forces Charity.

One never knows the person's background, they could have undiagnosed and untreated PTSD from military service. It's always worth asking the question. One less person to fall through the net of support.

I've just seen your post, DowagerCountess, it really struck a chord with me. I attended a leaving do for someone going on maternity and I was watching the games. A woman, also watching, suddenly did this strange 'flip', landed on the floor and appeared unconscious. An ambulance was called, it was one of those medical 'cars' that attended. They assessed her and left.

She was driven home by somebody, helped to walk by several people.

I was chatting to the organiser of that event a few weeks later. The collapsed woman is well known for wanting attention. I think that sums it up but that need comes from somewhere and it's a shame that it's unmet. It must be a miserable existence to be known as a faker but still feel so compelled to keep 'trying it on'.

It is IME too. Not a doctor, but I used to work as a police despatcher. We had many people who'd ring in with similar things, one would call in regularly saying he had something stuck in his rectum. His most common tale was that someone had knocked on his door asking for a glass of water and as he'd turned to get them one, they'd stuck something up his arse, basically. Police had to call for an ambulance each time this happened and he was far from the only one, just the most memorable.

I Also briefly dated a woman who'd go off to A&E with anything and everything. We once went out walking my dog, who got stuck in a prickly busy, woman went in after dog and got a few scratches-wanted me to take her to A&E. That one stands out but she was always doing it when we weren't together too. Tagging herself in at the hospital and sending me msgs saying she was going to get blue lighted because she had a pain in her foot or something equally innocuous.

Well done OP, you did tbe right thing. Unfortunately these people do exist, and I doubt anything will ever be done about them.

You and your family were very kind and that's what we need. If it was me needing help, I'd have been blessed to have bumped into you lot.

I'm sure the slaver will wash out.
Man's a dick.

@HalloweenYey I'm going to be brief because I think we might be high jacking the thread - but it's such an interesting discussion

I think to use limited resources to gain the best outcomes, you need to throw them at the youngest age groups (and their families)

After that I think there is a law of diminishing returns.

Also, many people with multiple ACEs manage to function well in adult life with little or no support/intervention - it's not inevitable that abuse begets abuse.

This advice is absolutely awful! Why would you post something so inappropriate and unprofessional?! The “sternum rub”?! Let’s hope that you never come across someone having a seizure. Seizures can present very differently and need to be taken seriously. There aren’t many people out there who fake seizures.

I do agree with focussing resources on the youngest. But I feel a responsibility to all. Hard to know how to solve the problem of limited resources.

I agree, many people can overcome ACEs. I've overcome many myself including physical, sexual and emotional abuses of various kinds. However, in order to overcome ACEs and grow up balanced and ok ish, there needs to be some protective factors. If you only learn unhelpful messages, abuse, neglect and poor behaviour then there will be inevitable consequences. To behave well, or grow up to feel secure with no MH probs, the child needs to have been shown somehow, by someone, how to behave well. They need to have been given enough messages from someone/somewhere that they are lovable, worthy, ok etc.. in order to feel secure. Sadly, some children grow up with such extreme levels of dysfunction and abuse/neglect, with no protective factors or helpful influences, that I do believe certain paths become inevitable at some point for some children (if intervention is not provided)

Exactly!
Plus someone could be having a type of seizure and still have some control of their limbs. Focal seizures and what not. For example, I could have a drop attack (sudden fall where my legs give way) followed by a non-epileptic seizure where I still have some control of my arms but can't respond. That would apparently look like I'd faked a collapse. And a sternum rub sounds frankly terrifying, imagine if you were ill in public and someone's reaction was to knuckle you in the chest?! Not to mention unnecessarily dangerous and painful, especially if you have other conditions going on. Just because there's the odd faker, doesn't mean anyone untrained should be starting seizure first aid by aggressively trying to work out if it's real.

Maybe house him at yours?
{Or perhaps not , as he will have been rigorously assessed many times by doctors to have Court orders banning him from calling an ambulance}

Women have been killed trying to ''help'' the antisocial whom they assume just need 'love and understanding'.

As PP have said , epilepsy fakers have exposed their genitals to nurses, and rubbed themselves up against nurses- a revolting sexual assault.

Some people just take and take and take, and are completely irredeemable.

He's an unpleasant pest who could have cost a life by deflecting an ambulance from someone who really needed one.

Instead he dribbled all over OP's daughter's coat and probably 'got off' on all the attention.

That's a really interesting take, and a perspective I'm not privy to in my job. We can put safeguarding, social services and mental health referrals in til the cows come home and some people respond fantastically and are able to move forward with their lives, and others do not. It is interesting to hear your insight on why that might be.

It's certainly true that it can be very frustrating to see the same person time and time again when the reason for calling an ambulance isn't genuine, that that can result in a poor attitude sometimes from the attending clinician. Regardless, I think it is right that measures have been taken to prevent this man from calling ambulances. The emergency services are under enormous pressure as it is, and my colleagues and I have all been to patients who have died while waiting for ambulances. The frequency of calls from people like this put additional pressure on already stretched resources and the risks to other patients because of this are very real.

@Serene135 and @WinterCoatsHelp I think your comments are also worth highlighting - while the man in this scenario is wasn't genuine, he is one of a tiny number and the overwhelming majority of people displaying these symptoms, whether of neurological or psychological origin, will be genuine and in need of emergency help. The OP did absolutely the right thing, and I really hope this unfortunate situation won't put her (or anyone else on this thread!) off helping again if a stranger is in need.

This individual was early 20s and on previous occasions has fallen in front of an ambulance (deliberately) and actively seeks out paramedic staff. DC was fine and always sees the best in people, she’s very practical and would help anyone but never come across this and was happily giving up her coat etc (it was freezing) which he then lay on for 45 minutes. She was then freezing for 45 minutes (I didn’t have a coat on as it was supposed to be a brisk walk home back to the MIL with the dogs!) . It’s not normal to lie on the ground for 45 minutes pretending to fit etc and lying with your eyes shut etc and groaning. I don’t know if he was mentally unwell, I’m not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I had to treat as if real, as did the doctor there and the medical student who stopped and others. We are all feeling better about it. Coat is dry. I have first aid training and actually so does DC.

if this was an easy answer and an easy fix - someone would have done it by now.

yes he might have an abusive background - but this is all speculation, or some unknown medical condition mental or otherwise - none of us know.,

I would always stop and help anyone be it someone that appears disoriented, drunk or on drugs etc I think most of the population would. I can always remember a young girl broken down at the side of the road in the dark or a lonely country lane in the middle of nowhere, she didn’t have a phone or wallet. I took her to a service station (she was cold and had been there for hours) I think it was a McDonald’s got her food and drink etc then drove her to a friends house etc who managed to get a friend to go and tow the car back - the girl was besides herself upset and had resigned herself to sleeping in a freezing car. I didn’t do it for the thank you car she sent or the thank you form her parents (who drove 2 hours just to thank me!) or the flowers she gave me the next day - I did it as that could of been me or my daughter or son and I’d hope people would do the same for us. Bit of a cliche now but ‘be kind’.

I hope wherever this man is - he is safe tonight. We’ve had a long drive up and down the M5 today with it being shut and diverting around it, and so fireworks display locally and bed for us by 9pm hopefully.

OP you are a good person and we need more people like you. Not everyone is good and whether he was or wasn’t genuine, you did the right thing by him so don’t lose that. Enjoy your fireworks and try and put this guy out of your mind. His problems are not your burden.

There is a young girl living near me who has been told she will be given a custodial if she doesn't stop ringing 999 for imaginary reasons.
She has diagnosed mental health conditions but there has to be a line drawn somewhere when ambulances are few and far between and REAL emergencies are being missed by such behaviour.
I have sympathy for her, there are needs not being met by living in the community alone.
But repeatedly calling emergencies isn't the answer.
Hats off to you OP, I would like to believe I'd do the same thing if the situation ever arose 🌸

This young man sounds like he has a serious psychiatric condition. There’s people who hear voices, there’s those with psychotic breakdowns and there’s others who fall infront of ambulances because of x,y, z trauma. We don’t know what happened to this young man OP, he sounds like a sick individual and I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Paramedics deal with this so they’re quite accustomed but you’re not a paramedic so it must have been very shocking. This sick man took advantage of you and your families empathy and put you through quite a traumatic ordeal. This man is not fit to be walking around in public and needs to be institutionalised, he’s a danger to the community and he’s putting the real victims in danger by using our emergency services.

Years ago I worked in a MH hospital and we had a guy admitted under the mental health act as he was on a bridge stating he would jump off. He reported during assessment he'd been in the military in NI and was traumatised.

Days into his admission, nothing was adding up in terms of his presentation or what he was saying his past medical or MH history was and he mentioned lots of areas of the UK he had lived in or been based in in the military.

This was before the internet and electronic notes linked to an NHS number so we started looking up the psychiatric hospitals in the areas he'd said he'd lived in and making enquiries about him.

Turned out he'd been doing this for years, moving round the country, getting himself sectioned and giving the same story, none of which was true and once he'd outstayed his welcome or been rumbled he moved on to somewhere else. We did speak to workers in some areas who'd attempted to get him housing even knowing his lies but he didn't want it, he was choosing the life he was living.

We called him into a meeting to discuss and he obviously sensed he'd been rumbled as he instead called a taxi and left.

Thankfully, it's harder to do these days as more systems are joined up.