Very bizarre afternoon and feel out of sorts

[Iwashopingnottobreakmyduck]

Drove 3 hours to visit MIL with DH and older children.

Walking back from the pub - met a man in a jacket, sweatpants and hat. He asked if we could call an ambulance, I asked why and he said he felt dizzy and started to collapse. DH phoned an ambulance. The guy told me his name, age and said he had epilepsy. He collapsed on the ground and started to fit violently.

An A and E consultant also walking past put him in recovery and numerous people stopped and asked to help. 45 minutes waiting in the freezing cold for an ambulance. Occasionally he came round and ‘fitted’. My daughter gave up her coat for his head support.

The ambulance arrived 45 minutes later and we were promptly told it was all a big con. This man is well known to them. He had appeared in court over it - calling ambulances out etc and abusing paramedics etc

We stood back and sure enough after the paramedics said they weren’t taking him to hospital and told him to get up and that he had enough attention etc he started being abusive to them and got up and we were shocked.

According to ambulance staff he is not either mentally ill or epileptic like he told us, that’s what they said.

DH has driven home and I feel very out of sorts. I had my head down listening to his breathing and he had drooled all over my daughter’s coat I held his hand for 45 minutes. No alcohol or drugs involved. According to a local man he does this every few days and there is a court order to stop him from doing it and they have sentenced him on previous ocassions. The police may be in touch with us. DH says he feels upset and used and of course was on the phone to 999 for 45 minutes, a crew was diverted from a real emergency. Daughter is pretty upset by it. Even the A and E doctor was taking his pulse etc - he didn’t know him as didn’t work at the local hospital.

I said to DH that whatever his needs are - they aren’t being met. I don’t know the answer or why. Or what society can do. But I feel very out of sorts.

He has been in court numerous times - at least 3 previous convictions according to a quick Google of his name. Also a previous conviction for Arson.

DH put her prized coat in the wash when we got home - it’s a nice coat and she didn’t mind giving it up for his head. It’s drying now. But we have said if she wants we will get it cleaned properly. I think it has shaken her confidence in people as she said ‘what would have happened if I had been on my own?’ Apparently a number of people walked past but DH and I stopped and I hope I would do the same again. DH is saying he feels like a mug. I think we are all thinking what if he had assaulted one of us. (One of the convictions is for assaulting a paramedic)

This is how I felt / feel. But paramedics said no mental health or neurological conditions and were adamant he doesn’t have epilepsy. I said to DH whatever his need it isn’t being met.

Look up FND. Just quite interesting. They don’t know what causes it.
Or it’ll be a mental health problem. No one who is ok behaves like this. That’s what I’d say to my daughter. You all did a kind thing and this doesn’t change that.

You’d be surprised how common this sort of thing is throughout emergency services. Happy, well people obviously do not do this sort of thing but it wastes so much time and diverts help from people in genuine emergencies and your patience does start to wear thin. Sometimes it’s possible to put people like this on a behavioural order where they aren’t supposed to contact services or lead other people to contact them on their behalf unless its a genuine emergency. You’re probably feeling a bit shocked and disconcerted by the whole thing op. Just know that you did a kind thing for someone and were working on the information available to you at the time.

This is one of those rare occasions when the word ‘discombobulated’ is the only one that describes the way you’re feeling. it will pass

This is so sad and I hope you and family will be ok in a few days once the shock fades and you have time to come to terms with it.

This poor man is clearly being failed by support services. A court order is likely to make his behaviour worse as he won't feel believed or supported.

He clearly is expressing a need for care and support. A prolonged inpatient stay with psychological intervention, would likely be of significant benefit, but that won't happen because beds are in short supply and he'll have been labelled as 'attention seeking' and not really mentally unwell. I've seen similar before and it's heart breaking.

So sad

All you can do is chalk this up to a very awful experience and look at your own kind behaviour and how you responded to someone apparently in need.

You all did amazing, keep reminding yourselves of that.
Him, well he has issues, hope he got his kicks out of it, awful person to do that to you, waste time from you and a doctor, ambulance workers and anyone else good enough to stop.
One day he will be like the boy who cried wolf, something will be happening and he will be ignored and it may just cost him his life

This is what they wanted to know as apparently he has a court order forbidding him from calling an ambulance unless he really needs one etc or from lying blocking a road or pavement. As he asked us to call one (ambulance) and then collapsed on me and we helped him down - I am guessing he has not broken those restrictions. We were asked who asked for an ambulance and why etc wanting to know exactly what he said and asked for.

The doctor there said he wasn’t overly worried but waited with us and didn’t know him personally (the man) but said he would of done likewise (phone) so 🤷‍♀️

Right DH and I off to bed as we have a long drive tomorrow. Thanks all. So sorry to people on our NHS who get these type of calls - knowing an emergency might not get answered. And yes whatever the crew said this man needs help. But it isn’t there.

This is sadly pretty common. Men and women with court orders banning from all hospitals, asbos, multiple fake names, ones who travel from Glasgow to Portsmouth to avoid being recognised and much more. Often fake seizures, sometimes other things (fake pulmonary embolism is a real corker).

Sorry you had to deal with this OP, it's grim. Sometimes their actions have truly awful consequences, remember one case that made the news of a woman convicted of faking a medical emergency in a children's hospital (and also faking that she was a child) meaning another child suffering a real emergency didn't get the help they needed.

Came on to say it could be undiagnosed FND, but that causes the person to genuinely experience symptoms even if they aren't physically happening - so they believe it's happening to them. if the man got straight up and started swearing at them once the paramedics clocked on, then probably not. Either way, FND is deep rooted in mental health /often linked with past trauma, and the primary focus is mental health treatment. Sounds like the guy needs mental health help whatever is making him do it - of which I'm certain he won't be getting.

Definitely don't let him take away from your good deed OP. You did the right thing in the circumstances, but I can see how it would feel extremely upsetting afterwards now knowing he wasnt genuine. Hope your daughter is ok - I'd probably get the coat dry cleaned anyway! Xx

Not sure how old your daughter is but it may be helpful to do a first aid class with her to take away her anxiety around what is she was on her own. The first aid action plan is DRSABC and the D stands for danger. The first thing we do when assisting someone is assess the danger to ourselves (e.g. are they standing in a puddle with a live electric wire?). If she doesn't feel safe assisting someone while she is on her own that's ok, the most important thing she can't do if someone if obviously very poorly is shout for help be that from other passers by or calling an ambulance as appropriate.

I have dealt with people who fabricate illness (in a professional capacity) and it is in my opinion definitely a mental health issue - there is usually some deep seated reason as to why they feel the need to seek attention in this way - annoying and time wasting as it is - feel sorry for them - you and your family did the right thing

I would feel really duped…how awful for you.

The world has some some really bizarre people in it and you've just encountered one of them. No wonder you feel out of sorts. What a strange thing for him to want to do. What an event to be caught up in, holding his hand and trying to help.

You will tell this story in the future and perhaps even laugh at the absurdity of it.

Odd day. Have wine. x

Don’t be upset, you responded in a kind, humane way to someone who you believed needed your help. You should be proud that you did this, you have also taught your daughter that being a decent human being is what we should all aspire too, even though sometimes the people we try to help turn out to be not who we thought they were! For being lovely.

You have shown kindness to someone who is really not well, just in a different way to the one you thought. Try not to dwell on it, you absolutely did a good thing, the universe has chalked it up.

He clearly has mental health issues and should be locked up for his own safety.

Sadly we don’t do that anymore, we just pay him to stay at home, probably pay all of his bills and housing costs too, and let him go out and prey on nice people.

I don’t think we should have to accept it, or chalk it up to a bizarre day, he is a public nuisance and should be locked up

Maybe it’s a sexual fetish?

Just hopping on to say FND is not a purely psychological illness, in fact researchers aren't even sure now that it's always linked to trauma - it can be in some cases but definitely not all. It's at the intersection of neuro and psych partly because it doesn't show up on scans (except fMRIs, a new type of imaging) so neuros decided it's psychological. Correlation also does not equal causation, and there may be very complicated factors around comorbidities which go some way to explaining why FND patients have a slightly higher prevalence of previous experience of mental illness. https://fndhope.org/fnd-guide/
Also (and I don't think this is what PPs meant, but I can definitely see it being read that way), the seizure part of FND, also known as functional/ dissociative/ non-epileptic seizures, are still "real" seizures, they're just not epileptic. And they can be very dangerous, in some cases the brain forgets to breathe and people end up in hospital for a long time because the seizures are so severe and frequent requiring oxygen that they're not safe without medical care on hand. And sometimes they're minor and not dangerous. But lots of people with FND have horror stories of doctors and nurses disbelieving them or treating them as fakers while they are in fact very ill and not in control, because it's not epilepsy.

We don't know what was going on with this man, and it sounds very stressful OP, I hope you can take some time to process it and that posting about it helped. Maybe he has functional seizures, but it's unlikely given the abuse of staff etc, plus if he's been in a lot they'll have assessed that. Plus with FND unless you have the sats dropping/ not breathing issues with seizures, most of us avoid A&E if at all possible because there's usually nothing they can do.
But conflating FND with fakers is dangerous and unfair.

So sorry you all experienced this. Think of the positives:

• Your kids had 'dry run' practical experience of what to do in an emergency like this. They were even able to watch a medical professional demonstrate the correct procedures.

• Your kids can also appreciate the reality of mental health and how it can manifest.

• You can be reassured that you and your family are good, kind, compassionate people who will help others in need.

Talk it through with your children, make sure they understand and have an outlet for their emotions. I can imagine anyone would feel very conflicted and confused, as you are. Totally understandable.

Make sure you're okay and that you give yourself time to process this. Your husband too.

Well done. You did the right thing.

You did the right thing, unfortunately when you do the right thing you sometimes get taken advantage of. Be proud of yourself for being the person who stopped, even though this person didn’t deserve it.

There's no way after fitting for 45 minutes he'd be with it enough to get up and start being abusive to paramedics.

I can have a 30 second seizure and be dopey as hell for a good half-hour, if I have a couple in quick succession I'm done for a long while.

He sounds like an arsehole. Sorry you experienced this OP

Faking illness is hard to treat because it’s a conscious choice.

This guy is having his needs met, sadly and cruelly for the rest of us.

Think of the needs of the person who didn’t get that ambulance.

You did a kind thing OP and it's hard when that is thrown back in your face.
I recently went to the aid of a young lady who was lying on the floor of our town centre. I did her basic obs (fine) and waited with her until the paramedic bike arrived.
I handed over to the paramedics about her condition at which point young lady sat up and started yelling at the paramedics that she was a boy and I was deliberately misgendering them.

The only other time I've helped in a similar situation was when a friend and I were driving home late at night (circa 1995) and say a young man lying in the main road, we stopped the car, went to help him, at which point he grabbed my friend and demanded our car keys. Luckily another car stopped and he ran off.

I will think twice re helping again.