Is my new line manager BU?

[MostlyGhostly]

I am off work (drs note) with stress related symptoms atm and due back on Monday - I do intend to return. I have just received a phone call from my new line manager who took over the role while I was off asking me to chat with her. She sounded irritated because apparently she has sent me a teams message and left a voicemail at the start of the week. I rarely listen to my voicemails because people tend to text unless they are cold callers and I haven’t logged into teams because I am off sick. The teams message O just looked at asked me to meet in person before I am due to return. This has really annoyed me and I’m not sure if it’s legal to ask someone who is signed off sick to meet face to face. I provided care for a relative while off sick and suffered a significant bereavement and have barely thought about work. I have just messaged the person explaining that I am still grieving and that I intend to start back on Monday but I would appreciate that my current situation (grieving a significant loss) is respected, code for, don’t speak down to me like I’m shit or ask me to come and meet you before I’m due back, I’m not in the fucking mood. I’m not sure if I was being OTT given my current state of mind. I’m middle management in a public sector organization and recently posted on the thread about being cynical / done with work, which is partly due to the weird hierarchical cliques at work.

YANBU: my line manager is overstepping

YABU: she’s well within her rights to be irritated with me and ask me to meet her before Monday

I'm pretty sure that if your GP has signed you off until Monday, you should not be expected to reply to anything before Monday.

I had a colleague signed off as she had surgery. She has posted some messages to her groups on Teams and has emailed me. I have replied to the emails because she instigated them but I wouldn't dream of messaging her first because according to her GP, she is not fit to work.

I think you need to send a message to HR clarifying the situation.

Your employer has every right to contact you and check in. There is no issue with a face to face meeting.

It may be that this person is new she wants to check how you are and offer support to aid your return.

You sound angry and defensive. Have you had help with your stress? Is it work related? The manager may want to do a stress risk assessment with you to ensure you are supported

Do you have a workplace EAP? Have you contacted them.

If you've not dealt with the stress you need coping strategies so you don't feel the need to go off again once you return.

GP don't sign you off until Monday.
They say on this day you were unwell. This is likely to be for 1, 2, 4 weeks. You can go back anytime you like before then if you are well enough.

Only if the employer agrees as there is a liability risk for people to return to work before a fit note expires.

OP, checking in and seeing if you need any support in returning isn't unreasonable and confirming youre not intending to extend the note, but it shouldn't be on work devices/apps such as Teams, and people shouldn't rely on people listening to their voicemails. A face to face whilst you're signed off isn't reasonable, it can wait until you're back on Monday.

You are already in battle mode. May I ask why? She may just want to meet you to go through what support and help you need without it being amongst the stress of the workplace.

Your aggressive stance that she is talking down to you or speaking to you like shit isn't reflected in what she has done. She messaged and then used an alternative method to contact you, neither of which suit you. What was she supposed to do?

I would think over why you are being so aggressive and angry towards someone you have never met and don't even know what she wants. It rather suggests to me that you may be projecting some of your own issues onto someone who hasn't done anything wrong (yet).

I have just messaged the person explaining that I am still grieving and that I intend to start back on Monday but I would appreciate that my current situation (grieving a significant loss) is respected, code for, don’t speak down to me like I’m shit or ask me to come and meet you before I’m due back, I’m not in the fucking mood. I’m not sure if I was being OTT given my current state of mind. I’m middle management in a public sector organization and recently posted on the thread about being cynical / done with work, which is partly due to the weird hierarchical cliques at work.

None of this sounds like you will be ready to back to work on Monday.

It's not unreasonable to invite you to meet and check in if you felt up to it. Sending you a teams message when you're off sick though is ridiculous. Why would you be checking teams?

I think you're well within your rights to say that you're planning on being back on Monday and can arrange to meet up then if required. It's only a few days away and I'm sure it can wait!

If she brings up the fact that she's left messages, you can point out that:

• you've not logged onto teams as you've been signed off sick
• you've not listened to your voicemails (I often don't)

Do you think you'll be in a position to go back on Monday? I only ask as you seem to be irritated by the situation already and this might not help with your stress. Have you thought about a phased return?

It's unreasonable to expect you to be checking work voicemails or messages while you are off sick.

In general it is accepted that if you are off sick with stress contact should be carefully managed, and should be around what supports are needed for the return and discussing the return not work.

www.davidsonmorris.com/signed-off-work-with-stress/

You do not need to meet with them face to face before you start back.

It sounds like the manager has definitely rubbed you up the wrong way which is completely understandable in the circumstances.

If you feel you need longer to grieve you might want to look at compassionate leave and other options.

My sympathies for your loss.

I do agree with this, look after yourself OP.

I think asking you to meet face-to-face for a check in is fairly normal when someone is off sick longish term.

However, now that she knows you’ve suffered a bereavement (reads as though she couldn’t be expected to know earlier) it’s reasonable to ask for the meeting to be once you’ve started back, I think.

'@BlueMum16 · Today 10:44

Your employer has every right to contact you and check in. There is no issue with a face to face meeting.'

Of course there is an issue with a face to face meeting. The OP is still signed off sick until Monday.

There is no reason why the OP should be checking her Teams message while off sick either.

Frankly all the manager needs to do is organise a meeting with her on her first day back and go through everything, including what support the OP might need.

But also - there’s nothing wrong with asking to be signed off longer by the dr if you need it. I would however expect your manager to want a meeting about your progress.

She’s offering you a welfare meeting.

OP she is checking in. Your manager has a duty of care to you.

If you don’t want to talk to her, that is fine. You don’t need to be so angry about it. Some people like to be checked on.

How long have you been off? Is your absence due to the bereavement or had this happened whilst you have been off?

Thank you for the replies. People who have said I’m defensive and angry are correct and DH thinks I’m not ready to go back. But not working adds another layer of stress as I’m worried about work piling up. I do feel that the management in my department is ridiculous. I’ve been there nearly 2 years and I was so hopeful for the change in organization however I’ve slowly felt more and more deskilled and undervalued. I once got given some feedback on my work 3rd hand, partner organization to big boss to my line manager to me, so no opportunity for dialogue and collaboration, no reason for it other than gate keeping. But as people say it’s not new line manager’s fault, just that I’m getting vibes that she is indoctrinated into the culture. I think I’ll talk to HR about phased or flexible return.

This

Bereavement and caring happened while I was signed off rather than the reason for the sick note which was about symptoms I’ve been having tests for for a number of months. So I never really got chance to get to grips with my symptoms.

I’m sorry to hear that OP. Could your new manager just want an update on what is going on?

You definitely don’t sound ready to go back.

My suggestion would be to meet with her, phone call if you prefer, and have a very honest conversation about your readiness to return,

I hope you get the time and support you need

It's not just a voicemail is it though? Presumably, it's also a missed call from work. So even if you don't listen to your voicemails, you could have returned the call (and this is from someone who never listens to her voicemail!) ~ I would've thought a Teams message would have been sent in case you saw it as a last resort, because she had called and left a message which you didn't respond to. In previous workplaces HR might have rescinded company sick pay per policy, because you haven't kept in reasonable contact by returning that call (personally I think that's too far, but I've seen it happen!)

Honestly OP it doesn't sound like you're ready to be back at work. Grieving isn't something you can decide you'll be fine for Monday when you're currently not. Having an honest conversation with your line manager may help you realise this, or at least understand what support you'll need to return. I've returned after grief, and felt the whole world was against me, and leaning into the help and support available from work and management is the only thing that got me back on track (and kept me from getting fired!)

Do you have occupational health? How long have you been off work? A phased return sounds like a good idea.

If your stress is health related and not work related having the routine and distraction of work may help.

Wishing you well with your aympo/tests.

I think YANBU being expected to log into teams, you have a sicknote which states you are not fit for work so why would you be logging into teams. She may be irritated that you would have had a missed call from her and not responded, even if just by text.

I was off many years ago and my manager came round for a cuppa a few times, I think it was more to check in on me than to harass me back to work before I was ready. Do you think this is what she wanted to do - maybe her tone is just the way she is, you said she is your new manager - have you worked with or spoke to her before?

We have a wellness meeting with any of our staff if they have been off for significant period of time, usually over team or we can meet them, generally to make sure they are OK, if they need any support, if a phased return to work would be beneficial, but generally just to make sure they are OK. I think this is probably why she has contacted you.

From the tone of your post and what you have said, I don't think you sound ready to return to work, take some more time

OP, it sound like you have had a really hard time. But respectfully, when I was a manager I did face to face meetings with people while they were off, to check on their welfare and have an honest conversation away from work so we could really make their return work for them, so they felt it was manageable and not feel under undue pressure. You feel she is irritated, but until you have spoken to her, you cannot know that. Although it is weird she thought you would be checking teams while you are off. She may be a CF who is really unreasonable. Or she may be a good manager who is trying to ensure you get the support you need. Its hard to say without meeting with her. You do sound fed up, even though most of what you are fed up with happened before her tenure as your manager - all you can do is make up your own mind when you are actually meeting with her - online communication is notorious for being misunderstood.

YABU to have ignored your calls + be annoyed about bereavement. You yourself admit that wasn't the reason for you being signed off. So how was she supposed to know?
It's not illegal to check in, managers are supposed to know whether any support etc is needed. You say you've been struggling with symptoms for months.

YANBU to be annoyed about an in-person meeting that's definitely not required.

Given the tone of your posts it's hard to tell whether a) she was actually irritated and b) if so, whether it was justified.

Anyway there are wider issues at play so a phased return etc might be best. But you need a referral to occupational health and clear documentation of your health issues. Both your existing condition and the caring + bereavement, stress, whatever.

Ironically you have now changed your mind , stating you are not ready to return on Monday as you said. Thereby proving she wasn't wrong for checking in.

@LittleRedRidingHoody we don’t have a work number, just individual work or personal mobiles so the missed call just looked like a random mobile number.

I’ve got form for ignoring and minimizing stress and mental health issues and see myself as someone who is very capable so showing “weakness” doesn’t come easy to me. This is the first time in about 25 years I have ever been off sick other than with Covid. I was supposed to have counseling but I’m still on the waiting list. I’m hoping to go for promotion next year which also doesn’t sit well with being away from works for too long. I guess I’m in a vicious circle and acknowledge that I do need some help getting out of it. Thanks for the replies and kindness