Page 8 | Labour has proved yet again that it hates employers/business.

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 2024-10-31T06:39:37+00:00

Don't be surprised when your local pubs, restaurants, hairdressers etc close up shop. Don't be surprised if your employer can't fund your next payrise, because their NI bill has increased. Workers will indirectly pay for these increases; employers don't have magic money trees. I work for an employer that has charitable status. We work to improve the lives of others but now have to look at reducing headcount. Employers are not all fat cats driving Mercs. BTW, I hate the Tories. This post does not make me a Tory before anyone starts that one.

Lyannaa · 31/10/2024 18:14

I currently work for a non profit organisation who will be closing its doors in the next 18 months because they cannot afford to carry on. Not all businesses are making £££s in profit, most small businesses are just floating above water if that. Its these type of businesses who will fold, leaving the bigger organisations to carry on, and they'll just raise prices on products to make up the shortfall. There are no winners here other than big organisations/corporations who can manipulate the market.

This is not the fault of the Labour government. It's a combination of people making poor voting choices over the last 14 years (repeatedly voting Tory and voting us out of the EU) and Covid lockdowns which weren't anyone's fault.

Ilovetowander · 31/10/2024 18:15

It's baffling how this Govt seem to have ignored the link between increasing NMW and employer NI contributions with the reduction in business confidence which will undoubtedly lead to an increase in unemployment.

MangoRose · 31/10/2024 18:37

carrythecan · 31/10/2024 13:14

I own a small business and employ about 30 people. Turnover is just over £1 million annually. We create and pay about £400,000 in tax and duties a year. Our industry was hugely affected by the pandemic lockdowns and the huge increase in utilities.

The reserve of cash the business had prior to the pandemic has been completely depleted and we have £120k of debt instead. We are re-paying the debt and we cannot build back our reserve of cash until we have done that.

About half our employees are young or 'unskilled' (I use that term in the sense that society sees it as an industry that does not require skills). In reality we employ many excellent people with amazing people skills, which is not something that anyone can do. We nurture and train our young employees to give them those skills too. I would love to double the wages of our employees but we would not have any customers as we would be seen as ripping customers off because we would be so expensive compared to similar businesses.

The last few years of above inflation rises in NMW have increased our wage bill hugely. We have not been able to increase our prices to cover this as we have to balance profits against the reality of what customers will pay. This NI increase on top of another big increase on the NMW will cost us another £40k. We have no option but to increase prices or go bust, but we will again need to balance any increase against the risk of losing customers.

We are not making massive profits at the expense of paying our employees. I earn less than several of my employees and have months where I don't pay myself at all.

The business is not a 'bad business', it had traded successfully for over 20 years prior to the pandemic. Our employees are loyal and enjoy working at the company. Many have been with us for over 10 years.

We are not special, this is the reality for many, many small businesses in the UK. The issue is that many small business have been absolutely hammered over the last 5 years and have nothing left to give,

We will do our best to keep going, but I could name dozens of similar businesses to us that have already stopped trading in the last 3 years. Each of them no longer paying the taxes they created into the economy.

How are the NHS and schools etc. going to be funded when the numbers of businesses creating the tax receipts cannot keep doing so?

It's shit isn't it, DH has come home pretty stressed again today, everyone is pretty down about it at his place. It is soul destroying for people who put everything into their businesses, it definitely isn't due to the businesses being badly run or rick tory owners fleecing everyone.

hamstersarse · 31/10/2024 18:42

Yeah, it will mean a smaller margin but I'd rather that if it means the money will be used to support our most vulnerable

This sort of line which is trotted out all the time is virtual signaling beyond comprehension.

There is nothing in the budget for 'vulnerable people' - The budget upheld existing caps on child benefits and we all know about the Winter Fuel Payments. Benefit payments are rising by 1.7% only, bus fare cap increased to £3,the first time buyer ISAs have been sneakily messed about with meaning many young people who invested in them will now face significant charges to use their money, income tax thresholds have been frozen.

Sorry, where is the support for the most vulnerable?

carrythecan · 31/10/2024 18:59

@MangoRose soul destroying is the right phrase. You can only carry on while feeling like you are hitting a brick wall for so long.

MangoRose · 31/10/2024 19:03

carrythecan · 31/10/2024 18:59

@MangoRose soul destroying is the right phrase. You can only carry on while feeling like you are hitting a brick wall for so long.

It's makes me sad and angry in equal parts! We are hoping for a miracle, it'll be a tough year either way.

Original poster

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 31/10/2024 19:14

ThereBeDragoons · 31/10/2024 08:54

It was a pretty painful budget for many businesses. I work for a regional charity- about 300+ odd staff. The NI cost will be extremely difficult to overcome, the solution will be a leaner workforce, and less charitable activity output, more that raises revenue. We prob won't do redundancies but vacancies will not be filled and an over-stretched workforce will suffer, and prices in the revenue streams we have will go up. Back of fag paper I think we're talking £250k+ that will not go to direct charitable output now.

But it was always going to be a difficult budget and Labour have kept their pledge about personal taxes. The money had to come from somewhere.

Personally I'd rather a bigger slice of personal tax at the top, something around dividend rates perhaps. But it's a hugely complicated picture - punish workers and you don't win elections, punish investors and you don't get the growth...

Similar here. On average its going to cost £1000 per employee, mostly because of the lowering of the threshold. Its a huge amount to account for.

OP posts:

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2024 19:15

@MonkeyToHeaven You have posted utter gibberish! We have just paid off wW2 debts! You actually think the UK pays off debts every year and the BodE balances the books! Really!

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2024 19:18

@MonkeyToHeaven Heres our debt spelt out for you!

Labour has proved yet again that it hates employers/business.

Feelingathomenow · 31/10/2024 19:26

dontbedaft2000 · 31/10/2024 07:19

I mean, at the height of the Cold War Keir Starmer was the secretary and editor for a Trotskyite magazine, called Socialist Alternatives which was a full on communist magazine specifically linked to the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT). I it served as a platform for Marxist thought and was described as having a Trotskyist orientation. He was 24 when he did this, well and truly old enough to know better and to have his political beliefs well and truly planted.

He also spent a summer at a Czechoslovakian work camp aged 23. The Czechoslovakian secret police, known as the StB (Státní bezpečnost), used the camps to gather intelligence, monitor foreign participants and find people who might be of interest to the Communist party and they were particularly interested in profiling bright and ambitious young people from Western countries, with the hope that they could be useful in various capacities in the future.

I mean, he might just have gone to the communist work camp for a bit of jolly good fun and at the age of 24 was just hanging out editing a communist mag for shits and giggles, I suppose.

I'm always surprised anyone else is surprised when Starmer does what he does. He's not exactly been hiding it from anyone who cares to look.

Coming soon to a comment near you - Mumsnet hysteric claims being anti communist makes you a fascist far right POS and anyway the good old commies were all just great guys who wanted to share.

Edited

Show quote history

I wrote earlier on another thread that it won’t be long before farmers and businesses will be able to hand over their business/farms to the government to settle their IHT liability - most people employed and fed by the government- I was called a conspiracy theorist. The British people were fooled by the nicely spoken man in a suit as opposed to the previous Marxist who looked like one/a geography teacher. We just need to somehow get through the next 5 years and hope people have learned their lesson.

Feelingathomenow · 31/10/2024 19:30

hamstersarse · 31/10/2024 18:42

Yeah, it will mean a smaller margin but I'd rather that if it means the money will be used to support our most vulnerable

This sort of line which is trotted out all the time is virtual signaling beyond comprehension.

There is nothing in the budget for 'vulnerable people' - The budget upheld existing caps on child benefits and we all know about the Winter Fuel Payments. Benefit payments are rising by 1.7% only, bus fare cap increased to £3,the first time buyer ISAs have been sneakily messed about with meaning many young people who invested in them will now face significant charges to use their money, income tax thresholds have been frozen.

Sorry, where is the support for the most vulnerable?

18 year olds earning beer money are getting a 16% pay rise!

MayaPinion · 31/10/2024 20:16

The local butchers posted tripe like this earlier today, so I looked them up on the Companies House website. Turns out they made almost half a million profit after tax last year. This will just be an excuse for companies to hike up their prices. God forbid they should actually pay their staff a wage they can survive on.

DancingNotDrowning · 31/10/2024 20:31

MayaPinion · 31/10/2024 20:16

The local butchers posted tripe like this earlier today, so I looked them up on the Companies House website. Turns out they made almost half a million profit after tax last year. This will just be an excuse for companies to hike up their prices. God forbid they should actually pay their staff a wage they can survive on.

If that’s owned and operated by one person that’s great going. If - like my butchers - it’s a partnership between 2 (elderly) brothers and their 4DC not so much.

MonkeyToHeaven · 31/10/2024 20:35

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2024 19:15

@MonkeyToHeaven You have posted utter gibberish! We have just paid off wW2 debts! You actually think the UK pays off debts every year and the BodE balances the books! Really!

Pays down the debt, not off.

Can you explain how the UK reduced its very high ratio of public debt to GDP after the Second World War while simultaneously expanding the welfare state, creating the NHS, expanding education & building social housing?

newnamethanks · 31/10/2024 20:37

Keir Starmer is a Commie sleeper agent? Heigh ho. At least he'll get on with Trump and his Russian friends then.

MonkeyToHeaven · 31/10/2024 20:39

TizerorFizz · 31/10/2024 19:18

@MonkeyToHeaven Heres our debt spelt out for you!

Yeah, because that borrowing hasn't been invested, we've had decades of public money & assets being gifted into private hands.

Original poster

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 31/10/2024 20:43

MayaPinion · 31/10/2024 20:16

The local butchers posted tripe like this earlier today, so I looked them up on the Companies House website. Turns out they made almost half a million profit after tax last year. This will just be an excuse for companies to hike up their prices. God forbid they should actually pay their staff a wage they can survive on.

Gross profit or net?

OP posts:

MonkeyToHeaven · 31/10/2024 20:45

newnamethanks · 31/10/2024 20:37

Keir Starmer is a Commie sleeper agent? Heigh ho. At least he'll get on with Trump and his Russian friends then.

That must be why he's been purging the left from the party, getting backing from corporate donors & has filled his cabinet with "Labour Together" formerly blue Labour. It's a cunning disguise.

Lickthips · 31/10/2024 21:08

DancingNotDrowning · 31/10/2024 20:31

If that’s owned and operated by one person that’s great going. If - like my butchers - it’s a partnership between 2 (elderly) brothers and their 4DC not so much.

Show quote history

It's £83,000 each. Not bad gross or net.

DancingNotDrowning · 31/10/2024 21:20

Well it’s £83k if they put nothing back into business. Which is not how successful business les tend to operate.

Lyannaa · 31/10/2024 22:03

Anyone who uses the word 'commie' is an embarrassment.

StarDolphins · 31/10/2024 22:06

ReadWithScepticism · 31/10/2024 07:20

Of course they don't hate employers/business. What a stupid claim.

They had to raise taxes somehow, as the country is more in need of ramped up public spending than ever. They have made the best balancing act that they can, to help make it possible to protect the NHS and other areas where crisis spending is unavoidable. Hope to god it can pay off.

And what is the plan to help make it possible to protect the NHS?

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 31/10/2024 22:18

dontbedaft2000 · 31/10/2024 07:19

I mean, at the height of the Cold War Keir Starmer was the secretary and editor for a Trotskyite magazine, called Socialist Alternatives which was a full on communist magazine specifically linked to the International Revolutionary Marxist Tendency (IRMT). I it served as a platform for Marxist thought and was described as having a Trotskyist orientation. He was 24 when he did this, well and truly old enough to know better and to have his political beliefs well and truly planted.

He also spent a summer at a Czechoslovakian work camp aged 23. The Czechoslovakian secret police, known as the StB (Státní bezpečnost), used the camps to gather intelligence, monitor foreign participants and find people who might be of interest to the Communist party and they were particularly interested in profiling bright and ambitious young people from Western countries, with the hope that they could be useful in various capacities in the future.

I mean, he might just have gone to the communist work camp for a bit of jolly good fun and at the age of 24 was just hanging out editing a communist mag for shits and giggles, I suppose.

I'm always surprised anyone else is surprised when Starmer does what he does. He's not exactly been hiding it from anyone who cares to look.

Coming soon to a comment near you - Mumsnet hysteric claims being anti communist makes you a fascist far right POS and anyway the good old commies were all just great guys who wanted to share.

Edited

Show quote history

What?!!

hamstersarse · 31/10/2024 22:23

I suspect the butchers on this thread is turning over half a million

newnamethanks · 31/10/2024 22:27

@lyanna. Apologies. How about Trotskyist? Will that do?