NMW to increase again next year to £12.21 ph.

[ZoeZee]

If you’ve not had a pay rise this year, despite bringing it up to your employer, and now there’s set to be another 6% NMW increase next year (which is fantastic, don’t get me wrong) the pay gap is narrowing ever more between skilled/unskilled employees.

Skilled and those with MANY years of experience, might as ditch their responsible/stressful jobs (which often keep you awake at night) and look for something that doesn’t have the added responsibility?

Almost 20 years experience means nothing to some employers! AIBU?

Any employers who have a view on this increase, please let me know how this might affect you and your staff.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'So?'
Your claim was that people who earn higher salaries deserve to do so because of qualifications and experience. I just pointed out that many people who earn large salaries are actually bad at their jobs, so perhaps don't deserve their six figure package. They also frequently 'earn' these large amounts on the backs of the people on NMW.

Obviously nothing I say is going to change the minds of folk who think an extra 77p is unjustified and those on NMW just need to cut their cloth etc.

MN "100k is nothing now"
Also MN "why do people need more than £12ph, that's plenty"

Indeedy - 'I earn 250k but we're struggling' 🙄

I think theres plenty of people who are against the NMW rise who don't see it through the lens of people having to 'cut their cloth' for that though!

Its interesting that many posters seem to be blind to the other suggestions and approaches that could be used as an alternative and why peole think that a rise won't actually help the poorest in our society (this will actually hit people on benefits more) because it won't actually tackle the cost of living issues and will just affect inflation rates.

But funnily enough those receiving large salary increases, never affects inflation rates? Same sort of myth as 'trickle down economics' which trickles as far as the wealthy then stops.

Talk about pulling the ladder up.

At the risk of sounding like a complete thicko, how do other countries manage to keep wages higher, (including public sector) and eg subsidised childcare? Presumably they pay more in taxes to fund that but is eg food , going to restaurants etc more expensive. I know Scandinavian countries are often held up as an example but everyone I know who's been to Denmark says how expensive it is to buy a coffee or eat out (but does that cancel out if you live there because your wage is comparatively higher?)

Wealth is spread more evenly. There are fewer extremely wealthy entrepeneurs. Fewer highly paid financial sector workers earning 6 figure bonuses.

Norway also only has a population 1/10th of the uk, with a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund from oil and gas to subsidise their annual budget.

Its worth noting though, that even in countries like Denmark, inequality has been rising. Pre-tax labour income is less evenly distributed there & return on capital is a bigger component on income - eg the highest earners are earning more and the rich are getting richer.

We need change - globally. Stronger trade unions, lower executive pay, parity between taxation of income from employment vs gains on capital.

Tesco pays its employees more than minimum wage. A lot of big supermarkets chains do. They dont pay big wages but I am always surprised when people give them as an example of minimum wage work. As they tend to go for the volunarary real living wage, rather than the slightly lower government one.

They also generally get a very good discount on food.

I think its getting full time hours that's the challenge.

Perhaps the
If you can’t afford to pay your staff £12ph, you shouldn’t have a business.
crowd should read this and comment on whether the OP should continue her business or retire gracefully.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5199278-to-think-this-budget-will-finish-us-off

I swear to god that some people have zero clue whatsoever about the implications here. The implications for the most vulnerable in our society (who are not on NMW for various reasons including age) are potentially catastophic.

I find it so loaded that people on NMW are looked at as the bottom of the rung. This isn't true.

It will just mean extra tax being reaped by the government to do with what they do or do not

Sadly the more you pay people the more everything costs it's a vicious circle and it's never going to end.

Sadly the more you pay people the more everything costs it's a vicious circle and it's never going to end.

then why has everything gone up in price when wages stagnated?

Because NMW has increased, it's all the other salaries that have stagnated. The salaries that generate spending.

Surely you don't really mean to advocate for increased inequality here?

Have you got the data to back up your claims yet?

You're mixing up equality and equity. Wage differentials are needed to maintain a workforce and workforce morale. For that to be equitable society needs to support those on lower incomes by way of affordable essentials (housing, utilities, food).

Tesco pays its employees more than minimum wage. A lot of big supermarkets chains do. They dont pay big wages but I am always surprised when people give them as an example of minimum wage work. As they tend to go for the voluntary real living wage, rather than the slightly lower government one.

You think the disparity between a CEO on a £10mill package and a worker earning a few coppers over NMW (which when I was viewing Tesco, Asda and Morrison wage slips wasn't over NMW, it was my job to look at them) is ok as its just a few coppers more but still at least £12k less than even a median average wage? You're looking at a disparity of over 50 x + and trying to justify it

I'm not trying to justify the disparity.

I'm looking at my wage on my job which is actual minimum wage and noting that they pay is less than the pay at Tesco.

all the other salaries? What like the CEO of British Gas? www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68669446#:~:text=Chris%20O'Shea's%20remuneration%20was,was%20%22impossible%20to%20justify%22.

I don't care about CEOs other than I know if you piss them off enough they'll take their companies out of the country. What I care about is the people who get no top ups and are on "good" salaries but are, like the OP, going to start thinking "what's the point". These are the families with disposable incomes that will stop spending in order to stay afloat, when they stop spending the economy grinds to a halt.

I don't care about CEOs other than I know if you piss them off enough they'll take their companies out of the country.

how do you see British Gas being taken overseas or Tesco?

What I care about is the people who get no top ups and are on "good" salaries but are, like the OP, going to start thinking "what's the point". These are the families with disposable incomes that will stop spending in order to stay afloat, when they stop spending the economy grinds to a halt

Indeed - but if you keep paying the CEOs more and don't look at those underneath and keep the disparity from being over 300x more, and if you don't stop and say no more - as those at the top can't actually make any money without the at the bottom not receiving benefits for working. The cogs come off and no one makes any money unless everyone works - there is money to pay the top people but not enough aprently to pay those further down?

May I remind you Walmart bought Asda.

This is exactly the position I am in.

I have decided not to employ now. It's always a huge leap to take on the first employee and I was prepared to take the initial hit to my own income but the business environment is now too toxic towards micro businesses to risk employing anyone.

May I remind you Walmart bought Asda

yes, I remember one person bringing in her wage slip to show me as she had gone from full time to part time. Walmart had then altered her annual leave from the day she swapped. I asked her if they would have altered her annual leave in the same way if she hd gone from part time to full time - oh no she said and suddenly realised they were swindling her out of annual leave she had honestly accrued...

We often found inaccuracies with `Walmart and their calculations of wages in their favour, I often wondered if it was due to them being USA company and that was what they stuck out above other companies as being the worst

Have you?

Finally something we can agree on but pray tell how would you achieve more affordable essentials for the lowest paid? What levers would you pull?

This sounds like a sensible decision, you should employ anyone if you don't think you can afford to pay them.