NMW to increase again next year to £12.21 ph.

[ZoeZee]

If you’ve not had a pay rise this year, despite bringing it up to your employer, and now there’s set to be another 6% NMW increase next year (which is fantastic, don’t get me wrong) the pay gap is narrowing ever more between skilled/unskilled employees.

Skilled and those with MANY years of experience, might as ditch their responsible/stressful jobs (which often keep you awake at night) and look for something that doesn’t have the added responsibility?

Almost 20 years experience means nothing to some employers! AIBU?

Any employers who have a view on this increase, please let me know how this might affect you and your staff.

A business goes under because it can't afford staff costs.

Where are the jobs for the newly unemployed?

This.

All of my staff get £20ph minimum regardless of their age etc.

I hope he does close, that's a 4th pub closed in his town. Yet another community asset lost. I suppose when the nurseries start closing that's when people will start shouting. Good luck with finding 'somewhere nice for a Sunday Roast' when your pub closes.

DH was talking to a bloke this weekend. He runs his own company.

Last year he was importing goods from china for £14k per container. This year due to trouble in the Middle East affecting shipping its £34k for the same container.

He's been trading for 30 years.

THEN add wages.

You can talk about how people shouldn't take the risk and should understand these issues and the business should close etc etc. But you are a fucking idiot.

Then you can all work for huge multinationals who have bigger turnovers than many countries and therefore huge amounts of political influence. And see how long the NWM stays where it is and how long workers rights are maintained. It represents a weakening of the power of the labour force if you wipe out small business.

We seem to think that wages can only rise...

I’m a CEO in the voluntary sector and pay all my team above minimum wage - but whilst rewarding it’s also a very stressful job dealing with people who are very stressed or in crisis
The nearer the minimum wage gets to what my staff earn I get told ‘why should I do this for x amount per hour when I can get same in xx supermarket for a much lower stress job’ I understand but can’t pay more!
Our contracts are fixed and we are being asked to do more for less
Fundraising from trusts and foundations have become harder, amounts reduced and are more competitive
I recently applied for a small amount of money to deliver a new project from a local council (max amount £10k) they emailed me to ask if I could reduce my application as they are oversubscribed - wanted to cut to between £3 and £5k, even at minimum wage that’s not a lot of staff time to deliver vital services plus all the on costs
I really don’t want to make people redundant but will have to consider cutting people’s hours (including my own) to manage spiralling costs

Quite.

Think about those defaulting renters and mortgage payers and the knock on effects of that and how much that costs everyone else too.

The monumentual lack of joined up thinking on this thread is truly a sight to behold.

We cannot continue to pay people shit wages just to prevent businesses not closing. Sorry, but we can’t.
I have run a business before and I had to shut it because I couldn’t afford the staff I needed to run it.
It was a great idea and I loved running it, but in all honesty, it was not financially viable.
Some businesses just aren’t, and that is not the responsibility of the employee, and there shouldn’t be an expectation that I won’t want more money because I will cause a company to shut.
Big businesses have always taken the piss, remember the “work experience” they made people on benefits do? When they had to work in Poundland or Tesco as a part of getting their benefits? And those businesses were only too happy to take that.
Its time that those at the bottom who do the shit, hard jobs that many of you could not function without us doing, got paid fairly for doing it.

No reason at all! We have a low wage economy and this is a practical consequence. I was responding to the general thread on why the NMW kept on increasing, and pointed out a major benefit to govt coffers which explains this. But - whilst I don't want to suggest I'm attacking benefits - the real problem is that people can't live off a full time wage, and that is a problem with our economy generally.

Funnily enough I actually think most people having enough money to live on and not being exploited for their labour is more important than anyone's luck with finding "somewhere nice for a Sunday roast". I think when you've calmed down a bit you'll agree.

I think it means staff who were slightly above that rate will remain on the same rate while others less senior will obviously be brought up to that level. So it could seem unfair to quite a few people. As the employer can't afford to bump up the wages in accordance for those who were on a few quid more previously.

"We seem to think that wages can only rise..."

Either you are bringing deliberately obtuse or suffering from money illusion.

Austerity meant many many people suffered real term pay cuts for years leading to significant erosion of purchasing power. We all remember the doctors pointing out how much their pay had been eroded and striking for the best part of 2 years.

That's before we get on to cuts in pension entitlement, accrual rates etc.

He's an idiot if he knew all about the risks but for some reason never imagined they would apply to him.

Well said! I don’t understand why people can’t see this.

A lot of trades employ people on minimum or living wage and will now have to increase their prices to cover the difference. People won’t be able to afford this increase so won’t get the extra work done, only essentials. Eventually those businesses will close leaving just the big companies who can then charge what they want. This also leaves lots of youngsters with no apprenticeships as not enough interest in taking them on…

You think 30 years ago when he started his company he should have predicted a £20k rise in shipping costs within one year? That's an unprecedented hike. By that logic no SMEs should open and operate in case stuff like this happens.

I’ll certainly be looking for an alternative job in the New Year.

Tell that to the 6 members of staff that he's going to lay off, they won't be feeling calm or exploited. It's not a failing business either, it's a deprived town who value their town centre pub. There are more aspects to running a business supporting the community than pounds, shillings and pence.

No of course not but he should have realised that owning a business is insecure and can be temporary and at any time something unexpected could happen which would threaten it's viability. Adapt or die.

@HairyPie that doesn't solve the problem of finding jobs for our existing jobseekers. The government needs to reduce unemployment and encourage people into these NMW jobs. The more people currently in this country we can move into employment the better all round. We shouldn't need to import care workers, we should be training and employing our own

better entertainment else where, booze cheaper at supermarkets etc all other various factors that add up as to why people dont use the pubs

Yeah true, let's just shut all leisure and hospitality businesses- that'll be nice.

No people aren’t that dumb, they’re angry that they’re working full time and can’t afford to pay their bills.
Have you worked in the private care sector? I have.Are you saying the government aren’t subsidising small businesses? They drive our economy! So why are more people relying on the government to top up their income, who incidentally are working full time.

If everyone had that mindset, there would be no businesses or jobs at all. Smh

The problem as some have identified is it’s inflationary. Those on minimum wage get an increase, then the levels above expect an increase to differentiate between the levels for experience, qualifications, responsibilities etc.

Then add on the NI rise for employers.

Companies need to make a profit to survive. They’re not going to run a business at a loss. Therefore if margins are tight they increase the cost of their products that you the consumer buy.

This applies to the big boys as well. So if the supermarket needs to increase its staffing costs by £xxx, they look at two things. Reducing staffing levels and increasing the prices of their products they sell. So the cost of your shopping goes up and the amount of staff operated tills decreases with an increase in self service areas. It’s just standard economics.

I think this will finish my pre-school which has been running for 30 years. The nmw increase, the rise in employer NI contributions, the fact we can't charge top-up fees and the funding that doesn't match what it actually costs to provide places. Successive governments have meddled with and distorted the sector so much that it is now un-workable.
We are a not for profit small, excellent setting but we can't run at a loss.