Can I tell this kid off? Feel awkward!

[ChilliHeeler1]

DD 7 is/was friends with a boy in her class who also in the next street. He’s always been a bit temperamental/his mum describes him as moody, often seems to do things to be purposely awkward, can be rude…..anyway him and DD always seemed to get on fine, enjoyed each others company etc. His mum has helped me with school runs etc quite a lot when I’ve been working etc. Recently her son has been very rude and unkind on several occasions to DD. He’s done this in front of me and his mum, his mum understandably gets a bit embarrassed and tells him to stop being rude etc and she’s text me before to apologise for him being unkind. I’ve asked DD if anything’s happened between them for him to behave like this/his mum has asked him and she has also told me that DD has literally done nothing to upset him. He’s just being mean basically. We don’t have play dates with them any more, but AIBU to tell him off if he is horrible to her again, whether his mum says anything to him or not? I feel like it’s a grey area, telling off someone else’s child, but I’m getting annoyed with his behaviour towards DD and she has also been upset. I know 7 is still little but it’s old enough to know when you’re being unkind to someone and I note he only singles DD out for it and wouldn’t dare try it with any of the others in their class.
I’m a bit worried about potential awkwardness between me and his mum because I do really like her! Any advice appreciated! Thanks!

Can you teach your daughter to stand up for herself?

I wouldn't tell him off in front of her if she's already told him to stop being rude etc. I would say something if she wasn't there/didn't say something. I wouldn't 'tell him off' though, I'd say something like "Oh dear, Henry! That's not very kind is it?Margot won't want to be play with you anymore if you say that/do that" and then give him a hard stare, Paddington style.

You're entitled to tell any child off at any time if they're upsetting your child, no matter what their parent might think.

However, you need to be teaching your DD to do it.

If a child behaves badly in front of me and there parent doesn't act - I will.

But she has told him not to be rude and she has apologised to you. So it is a tricky one. Try backing her up rather than tell him off independently.

I’d cool off the playdates personally. If someone was repeatedly unkind to you, would you want to spend time with them or call them your friend?

Yes, of course you can, but why are you spending so much time together when he’s behaving badly to your dd?
It’s hardly fair on her, is it? Maybe, just stop…

This is it - if his mums there, you don't need to add to the telling off

But if not, just say 'that's not nice, you're not being nice' etc

Even if it's understandably pissing you off, I wouldn't overdo it

He's only 7, kids do things for all sorts of reasons, none of them are perfect

We don’t have play dates with them any more

I wouldn't tell him off if the mum is literally there and telling him not to be rude and apologising to you.
If she doesn't say anything you could say 'that's rude!' or 'I don't think DD likes being spoken to like that'.

Sorry just to clarify we don’t have play dates any more. His mum does kindly help me with school runs quite a bit as I’m juggling work, picking my other DD up from nursery etc

Ideally I would make alternative arrangements but I can’t afford after school club and it’s literally just dropping her home because by the time she’s driven them home from school I’m just pulling onto the drive having picked the toddler up, if that makes sense

Urgh, that is tricky OP. Sorry, misread. I’d be teaching your child to say “That isn’t kind, please stop” on the first instance and “Bob’s mum, Bob is being unkind to me, can you help please?” on subsequent. But it isn’t ideal. I wonder if he is fed up of the arrangement and taking it out on your DD?

This person sounds like a good friend to you, I'd be trusting her judgement on how to parent her child.

It could just be a phase he's going through, I wouldn't take it to heart. Maybe he's struggling to socialise or to behave appropriately

Doesn't sound like hes a bully or he's being unkind to your child, just coming across a bit rude x

Yes you can but it's how and what you say....so I wouldn't raise my voice, be stern or say single commands like stop that now. But I might say in a calm kind voice, please don't speak like that in this house or please don't be unkind. Or a reminder of manners is fine, can you use please and thank yous whilst you're here.

Thanks for your replies. Yes I have taught her to say “stop being mean” and to tell his mum if he is starting, but whether his mum tells him to stop or not he carries on. They always got on really well, there’s been no falling out, he just seems to have suddenly started making horrible comments to her.
If you were me; would you leave it as it is or make alternative school drop off arrangements (somehow?!)

What does your DD think? Is she ok to carry on being with him on the school runs? Can you work out some stock responses for her if he is being mean? Does the other mum say anything to you privately, like she’s sorry for his behaviour and is doing her best to control him or find out why he’s doing it?

It does sound like a good set up and if the other mum is ok with it I’d be reluctant to have to find alternatives.

Bingo...

Sticking up for herself can mean telling him to stop it but also following it up by telling his parent that she's uncomfortable for x reasons and needs adult assistance.

What is he saying exactly and how does dd feel about it?

Yeah his mum has text me before to apologise for him being rude and that she has told him off etc, but it carries on regardless.
He says she’s annoying, stupid, makes comments like “SHE shouldn’t be here because she isn’t part of our family” and “thank God she’s finally gone” when his mum drops her home 👀 😮
To reiterate his mum is driving her a short distance from school to home, they live in the next street so there’s no lengthy detour involved, she’s not stepping foot in his house after school, there’s been no falling out, I’ve asked both DD and his mum if DD has been badly behaved etc on these car journeys and his own mum has said she’s literally not said a word and he starts making these comments. I feel so sorry for DD and guilty that I’m basically putting her in a situation where she’s got this boy being mean to her every day even if it is for 5mins, I can’t afford after school club though so short of rebranding my whole working day and toddler nursery pickup times I feel really stuck. What would you do? Continue with it and monitor
or just try and sort something else out?

Rearranging not rebranding!

How does your DD feel about it?

If possible, I'd try to find another arrangement.
If it's happening on the way home when you're not there, then there isn't much you can do - you could say something to him afterwards but as the mum is doing you a favour and you're reliant on her that could be awkward. Can you pick up your toddler a little later or can someone else help out? I think it sounds like you need to organise something independent of favours like this.

This thread is making me remember a kid who I used to share lifts with. Hannah. Once she banned me from using the headrests in the car so I spent the journey trying to hold my neck forwards and not touching them. Wish someone had given me the words to tell her to wind her neck in. Mind you I also never told anyone about it so they didn't have much opportunity to help!

If you’re literally reaching your own home as she pulls up after a 5 minute drive, it sounds like there’s plenty of room to manoeuvre?
You’re literally talking about a c5 minute overlap.
Why not pick up your toddler 5 minutes earlier and drive to school yourself?

I think it is very unkind to force your daughter into this boy's company on these lifts home. Whether you think you are teaching her how to stand up for herself or not, really, on one level, you are teaching her that she has to put up with it as you won't make a better plan. You really should restructure your pick ups so that you can do them both.

Maybe the arrangement no longer works for them. They can't go places because they have to take DD home.
The fact that the boy says these things again and again means he hasn't been getting a warning from his mum.
You can't say anything, but you should make other arrangement to bring this school drop offs to an end.