Our sibling’s engagement

[LondonLass24]

What would you do and how would you feel in this situation? Have name changed for this thread.

Three siblings all living in London. Two of us have been here for quite some time. One has only been here a few months. We are all what I’d consider pretty close. Especially the two of us that have been here longer. They’re not just my sibling but my friend, confident and my absolute rock in hard times. He’s had my back and got me through some terrible times in my life. Financial, emotional, all of it. Our kids are best friends. We lost our younger sister last year to suicide in a horrific way which has brought us all closer and I really thought it made us treasure what we have left even more than before.

Our youngest sibling got engaged. I woke up to a lovely picture of the proposal and a message announcing their engagement. He also contacted all of my children and my husband to share the news.

As much as I love my younger brother, he is narcissistic, arrogant, can be very sly and gossipy. We’ve always just let it go because he’s been through trauma too and we know it’s some sort of trauma response. None of us are perfect.

Saying that, causing dissension is something I cannot abide by because that’s what our father did to us all of our lives. Playing everyone off against each other. He was abusive and also a narcissist. We are all no contact with him. Our sister took her life because she had BPD from our horrific childhood. Just wanted to share this all so I don’t drip feed.

ANYWAY, my brother did not share the news of his engagement with our older brother for absolutely no apparent reason. He told my entire immediate family but did not share the news with my brother and his family. I waited all day hoping he’d share the news himself but he didn’t. He then proceeded to share the news with the world publicly on Social media. FB and Instagram. So did his fiancé. They did this before telling my brother themselves.

Of course our older brother is hurt, angry and confused. As is his wife and their children. They just don’t understand why he would do this? It’s now caused a rift and before anyone comes at me, this does involve me, my older brother has gone out of his way to defend me and stand by me when people have done or said things to hurt me.

What’s even more puzzling is that something happened three weeks ago that caused a bit of a spat between my younger brother and I. He’s kept in contact with our older brother while we’ve been trying to figure it all out. There is nothing more to this. The only thing we can think of is that my younger brother wanted my older brother to turn his back on me during a rough time with my MH. Wanted to do a “tough love” approach. I have CPTSD and Cyclothymia and have difficult episodes with my MH. My older brother refused to turn his back on me and this might have pissed our younger brother off. That’s the only thing we can think of!

How would you respond to this? How would you feel? Of course we haven’t called him out on it because they’re still on their engagement holiday so we’re waiting for them to get back home. I want to stand up for the person who has always stood by me. This is going to cause such a major rift it has to be addressed by everyone IMO. Little brother does not like being called out on his behaviour so I know this won’t end well. His gaslighting skills and turning himself into the victim are pretty impressive.

I can’t just stay out of it because it’s going to have a huge knock on effect on our whole family. And like I said, I have to stand by the person who has always stood by me. Stood up for me when I’ve needed him.

Thoughts?

Sorry, had to log off for a while and just come back on. You’re all saying very sensible things and giving great advice. I don’t want to confront LB or cut him off or anything like that. I just wanted to ask why he did what he did. Or is it none of my business to ask that question? I genuinely am curious if it would be wrong to just ask like @HappyTwo suggested. Unfortunately I have a feeling he won’t respond well because that’s just how he is. And yes, OB has a thing about loyalty so there is a part of me that is so scared of being cut off. He hasn’t asked me BTW. This is all me. I could just be overthinking it all which from all these comments I think I am. But thank you all for helping me see what I couldn’t see on my own. I obsess over things. Always think of the worst case scenario and don’t handle conflict well at all. I literally lose sleep and have panic attacks over things like this. That’s why I thought I’d reach out and get completely objective opinions. So, thank you to all that were so kind! We grew up in an environment where we were always forced to take sides. I wasn’t allowed to speak to my mum for many years after she had to run away from my dad to literally save her life. If we got caught having contact at all the punishment was extreme so my brain is just wired differently. But I’m having therapy and learning to do things like I have today, reaching out and getting advice for example before acting. I really struggle with abandonment issues which has forced me to become the “fixer”. Because losing people makes me spiral. Thanks again for being kind, I appreciate you.

@DisappearingGirl that’s really super advice, thank you! That’s such a good way to deal with it. I’ll try that for sure ❤️

@LondonLass24

Here's my perspective:

LB= narcissistic shit stirrer. Thrives on causing drama. Has never had your back.

OB= has been your 'rock' but wants loyalty in return. Doesn't cause you drama.

I know which one I'd rather have in my life. And TBH if I was the one who was always 'there' for someone I'd want and expect them to feel loyalty to me, too. Because I am being loyal to them.

As far as asking LB what he means by all this, why? You know him for what he is and you will not get an honest and 'true' answer. You'll get an answer from a narcissist, and you know exactly what that's worth? Nothing, that's what. Why cause yourself drama.

When it comes to OB, you need to be 'guided' by him in this situation. And I mean that in the sense of not contacting LB 'on his behalf' if he doesn't want you to and not trying to 'smooth things out' if OB has decided he's had enough from LB and wants NC. You must honour his decision by not interfering.

As far as what OB might want you to do with your own relationship with LB, he doesn't have a right to demand that you go NC with LB if you don't want to. That's not a part of 'loyalty'. Nor should he ask you to be a 'conduit of information' about LB's life and goings on. But nor should you mention LB to him if you should decide you want to maintain contact with him.

Personally, I don't like people who enjoy causing mayhem and dissension in other people's lives. They thrive on and feed off of the other people's pain and confusion. I won't have them in my life.

@LondonLass24 it's easy for us to say, but hard to do when you've grown up in that environment, and when everyone around you is also caught up in the drama and upset. But it's great that you are thinking about it all and trying to make changes. I've seen the "grey rock" technique mentioned a lot on here for dealing with difficult people and situations.

We grew up in an environment where we were always forced to take sides. I wasn’t allowed to speak to my mum for many years after she had to run away from my dad to literally save her life. If we got caught having contact at all the punishment was extreme so my brain is just wired differently.

This is absolutely awful. No wonder your family has issues. Please be kind to yourself

@AcrossthePond55 that is such a good answer and an excellent perspective. You are right. LB is causing hurt and dissension and I can’t abide by that at all. I’ve had enough of it and it drove my sister to suicide. He was cruel and so unsupportive of our little sister who took her life because of this behaviour. First from my dad and then my brother. I did everything I could for her, she lived with us so I have so much insight into what she went through. I feel like after her death he turned to me and started doing the same to me. He wouldn’t accept her diagnosis would regularly call her things like useless and psycho. It broke her. Typing this out it’s amazing that he’s still in my life to be honest. Wtf am I actually doing?! I ended up having plastic surgery because of my wounds and all he did was attack me, make me feel crazy and try and convince everyone in my life to have me committed. The arrogance of that is actually mind blowing, the fact that he even thinks he has that power of my life. The ego! Not once did he even ask me if I was ok.

OB really is my rock and I agree with you about expecting some sort of loyalty when a person has shown you nothing but love, compassion and unwavering loyalty. He put himself out there for me without me having to ask. Luckily OB is the kind of person that once he’s made the decision to walk away from someone he won’t even mention their name again so feeding back info or asking for info just won’t happen. He wouldn’t even want to know. Once he’s done he’s done.

I don’t like people who behave that way either. I lived with it for so long with my father. When I look at LB I just see my father. I think I know what needs to be done. And not just for OB but for myself and my own MH too. He’s not just a narcissist, he’s misogynistic too. Absolutely hates women and our opinion means nothing to him. This thread has been almost healing for me. Being able to say all the things I’ve held close to my heart for so long.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply ❤️

@DisappearingGirl thank you so much for your kindness ❤️ I’ve never heard of the grey rock technique but I’ll look it up right away. Thank you!

My childhood took so much from us all. I don’t often talk about it. I’ve tried so hard for so long to put on this mask to hide my true feelings to protect my kids and I to be honest I’m pretty proud of myself in that regard. I lived in 32 houses before I was 18. My babies have lived on the same street since my first was born. 17 years! They’ve never had to move schools. They have two loving parents. I’ve shielded them to the best of my ability and hidden my past from them as much as I possibly can. But when my little sister took her life, something inside me broke. But I’m getting there. I’m doing everything I can to heal, for them and for me. But anything to do with my siblings brings up my past and is a huge trigger. I am getting help though and hopefully one day I will be at peace with all of that.

I’m happy to report that my mum is very much a huge part of my life now. I left home at 18 and while I still had contact with my father for many years, he could no longer control me. My mum is my hero ❤️ the strongest person I know. After my sister died I couldn’t forgive my father and it gave me the strength to walk away, for good. Best decision I ever made.

Wow. Based on your latest update you should be proud of yourself ♥️

@LondonLass24

I''m glad if my words were a part of your eyes being opened. I think you always knew, it just took hearing it from 'outside your head'.

If you plan to cut contact with LB, please remember that the best way to do it is suddenly and with no explanation. He won't 'hear' you anyway and you'll open yourself up to abuse and manipulation. So just drop off his radar. Block him so he cannot contact you. Be aware of 'flying monkeys' and remember that you owe no one an explanation.

You and OB lean on each other. You'll both be fine.

@LondonLass24

If you aren't ready for no contact then yes, 'grey rock' is the way to go. Just be aware that there are some narcs who are infuriated by it and become even worse. So be on your guard.

@DisappearingGirl that means the world to me. Thank you lovely ❤️

@AcrossthePond55 your words helped more than you know and I can’t thank you enough. That’s how I did it with my father and it’s been over a year! There was no talking. I made my decision and walked away. Going to look up “Grey Rock” now. Haven’t had time just yet. You have really helped though, thank you so much! 💐

@LondonLass24

Best of luck to you! I wish you peace.

@Onlyonekenobe ’s posts are sensible and measured. I would read them carefully and think about them, rather than get sucked into a spiral of sibling drama.

Cut them off protect your mental health. Families are a massive pain in the arse.
Friends that you can choose are so.much better.
If it's not this drama it will be another somewhere along the line.
It's not happiness at all.

Asking tentatively - do you all have BPD? Because cutting someone out your life for for hearing about their engagement from social media is quite extreme. Yes it would be a bit annoying and spiteful but I wouldn't cause a huge argument over this if my sibling did it. There's also quite a lot of black and white thinking going on - you, your eldest brother and your sister have trauma responses buy your younger brother (from same childhood) is a narcissist.

Like a PP I am a bit surprised your older brother's wife and kids are so bothered by this.

@BackForABit Only my sister had BPD. I have CPTSD (Complex PTSD) they have some similar traits but are also quite different in a lot of ways. When I’m having an episode I don’t lash out at people or hurt the people I love for example. My brothers have never been to a psychiatrist so they’ve never been officially diagnosed with anything. I know without a doubt that my younger brother is a narcissist though. The cutting off for silly reasons comes from my father. He’s one of 6 siblings and I’ve got 18 cousins but I never knew them. He’d cut us off, his own children, for just using the wrong tone when we spoke to him. I’m not even kidding. So it’s become something “normal” for our family.

@PassingStranger Ain't that the truth! I am very lucky to have the most wonderful group of friends who I consider the family I got to choose. We’re all from another country but moved here around the same time when we were 19 or so. We’ve been friends since we were 12 and they’ve been through everything with me. Two of their mums took me under their wing when my mum left and they’ve never let me go. I have three mums now 🥰 I just wanted some completely objective advice with this because one of them is currently going through something awful and I didn't want to burden them with this right now. I wanted the focus to be on her. Not me and my silly family problems.

I wpuldnt do anything. Anything else casues unnecessarily drama.
Congratulate them on their engagement. Dont mention anything. Leave them to their drama

@LondonLass24

"Not me and my silly family problems."

Please don't refer to your problems as 'silly'. They aren't. From what you've said the effects from your dad's treatment of all of you are serious and profound. You and OB are to be congratulated for, if perhaps not completely 'triumphing' over them, at least for making yourselves good and solid lives despite them.

Take pride in the life you've created.

Totally disagree, why would they not be hurt, when they've clearly been intentionally left out, for who knows what reasons? I would also be offended if it was me.

@AcrossthePond55 you are so kind. And have me in tears now 🥲 thank you for your lovely words and for your support.

@LondonLass24

I don't mean to make you cry, sweetheart. But let them be 'strong tears'. Those are the ones you shed when you are validated and you end up feeling stronger when they're done.

Just remember these wise words:

How have they been left out? They found out about their uncle's engagement via social media couple of days later than their cousin via text message. I really struggle to understand a 12 year old caring about this - unless they have been pulled into the drama by the adults. And from what I can see the only potentially hurtful message was the one sent to me the OPs daughter from the uncle - but why would anyone share that with SIL and niece unless they were trying to stir up drama.

Honestly, my reaction if I were your brother would be no reaction, I wouldn't be giving the drama lama the fuss and attention he wants. I'd text congrats, glossover being left out and continue with me life focusing my attention on you the sibling that is there for me as much as I am for them.
I wouldn't go no contact if I were your brother I'd just go superficial and give only what I receive, so texts for occasions, an invite to birthday dinner or whatever but not expect him to put himself out enough to turn up.
I certainly wouldn't be expecting you to turn yourself in between the 2 of us, there is no reasoning with this behaviour and trying to just adds more upset for you both

I think you are doing absolutely the right thing supporting your older brother despite it causing problems with young brother.
I've recently been in similar position to your OB, treated very badly by a sibling's family and rest of my family think this is something that can just be ignored and pretend it's not happened to try to keep the peace. However, it doesnt work, it makes you feel very let down and that there is no loyalty.
You having your older brother's back is hugely important and mean more than you know to him. It will also show your children the way to live morally! (My own situation been confusing for my children, been really horrible). I think you sound amazing, hugely loyal and depebdable, i wish my family had been like you. Sending you hugs and best wishes💐

Your older brother just needs to ask your younger brother why he did it, if it’s bothering him. Then he can deal with the response as he sees fit. You don’t need to worry about it or get involved. This is drama for the sake of it in my opinion and I’m not meaning that in a nasty way, I appreciate if you’re struggling with your mental health you may be blowing it out of proportion, but I’d just try to let it wash over me if I were you.