Being dry at night toilet training... should I force it?

[Winniethepig]

I have a 4.5 year old who is still not dry at night, she is soaking wet with wee in nappies even though we cut her liquids at dinner and make her wee before bed. We have tried taking nappies away a few times and she gets very distressed when she wakes wet. When we have tried its also led to day time regressions.

We go back to nappies, and she's happy.

Our GP said all kids run on different timelines and if she is still having issues after 5 to come back, but my mother in law is being very opinionated about it and is saying I'm holding her back and now DH has taken all the nappies away.

I'm really not sure if we should just persevere or if I should wait until her nappies feel dry in the morning. I obviously am sick of wet bedding and nappies but I don't want her stressed out at night.

Would love any advice x

My DD is the same age as yours @Winniethepig . She’s been dry during the day since she was 2 but we had a hell of a time trying to get her to do poos in the potty / toilet and it just stressed us all out. From that moment on, I just made a decision that I wasn’t going to put anymore stress on her or us to do anything and she will do things when she is ready and then 2 months later, everything changed and she was fine.

When it came to night time, I just waited until she was dry at night for 5 consecutive nights then gave it a go, this was about 6 weeks ago. She wasn’t quite ready so tried again a couple of weeks later and she’s only had 1 accident so far but, even if she does we don’t make a big deal of it and reassure her ( not saying you don’t btw! )

You can’t force them with the night time stuff and getting stressed about it does nothing and they pick up on it as well. My niece was in nighttime pull ups until she was 7 then the hormones kicked in, my other niece was dry from before she was 3, everyone is different!

Put it this way, when she go’s for a job interview or any other big milestones in her life, they aren’t going to ask her “ when you were dry at night? What was your first word? When did you start walking? “ don’t put any unnecessary pressure on yourself or your DD, it’s not worth it.

Both my DC got the hang of potty training within a week when they were 2, but not dry at night until around 7. We used an alarm for DD, but DS slept so deeply the alarm just woke everyone else and not him! 🤣

We are currently going through this with our 8yo, who's under an enuresis nurse. We've done an input/output chart, Desmomelts and now Desmopressin tablets.
DC has just had a scan of kidneys and bladder to make sure nothing is wrong there before starting a medication to help dull the receptors in their bladder which will hopefully stretch their bladder.
The specialist nurse has been brilliant, trying to work out whether medication or a bedwetting alarm is the right route to take. It is about waiting for the body to produce enough of the correct hormone, but can be a little more nuanced than that, which is where the nurse has been great at trying to find the best approach. We didn't get a referral until 7.5yo though.

My DD was 10 when she stopped. Keep your child in nappies - pull ups might be better. Invest in some waterproof sheets - I personally recommend hippychick ones.

It is all perfectly normal and very, very common (just that people don’t talk about it!). In the end we got support from the Enuresis clinic but she stopped by herself. There’s plenty of info online. Do not force it, your DC can’t help it.

Don't be silly. It's not cruel to give, for example, a small drink rather than a big one.

Not necessarily! DS always had a wet nappy in the morning but when I decided to try him without a nappy, he probably wet the bed twice in the first fortnight, then not at all afterwards.

However, that’s him. OP has tried her DD without nappies and has had constant wet beds, so it is madness to take the nappies away. Both she and DD are now very stressed while DH and MIL are standing on the sidelines bullying them. That really isn’t a recipe for success! It’s actually quite cruel as the DD’s anxiety is probably making it more difficult for her to be dry at night.

OP, I would put her back in night nappies for a good few months and maybe try again in the spring. Tell DH and MIL to back off; it’s obviously not them who are dealing with the consequences of wet beds.

Please ignore your DH and MIL. Kids. like with absolutely everything, get there at different times. Both of mine were dry in the day and had been for years but still needed pullups for absolutely ages after. They were well into 6 by the time they started to go through the night dry. No issues, no problem, just patience and letting nature run its course. It's very rare for children to have issues that need exploring.

Both mine were dry in day at 2.5 but in pull ups at night until 7. Boy and girl. DS had overnight beavers and leader said no problem, lots of the kids were still in pull ups. Didn't stress as they were both so good in the day. Their bodies just were not ready.

Always understood it was hormonal and thought it was strange that people would go to the effort of waking their sleeping child to put them on the toilet. A) them having undisturbed sleep is incredibly important and B) why the hell would you risk having undisturbed sleep yourself 😂😂

It is hormonal, but it’s easier to last 8 hours without a wee than 12. The idea is to lift them before you go to bed (not in the middle of the night!). I’ve only known one mum who did this. She had 2 children very close in age and the younger one was dry at night before the older one, so she did it with the older one.

My dd is 7.5 years and only just dry through the night with the help of a 3 month course of medication.

My 5 year old still wets at night. But both where dry In the day by 3.

My 2 boys where both dry by 3 day and night.

It's a hormonal thing.

The GP here wouldn't provide medication until aged 7.

So I wouldn't be worrying just yet!

@Winniethepig Maybe you could show your MiL some of the research ( not people’s opinions) referred to on here, and explain
the approach you and your DH are taking.
If she continues to comment critically then day you won’t be having more discussion and stick to that.

Dd was 5 and a half before she was dry at night. Chatting to other parents in the playground at pick up, she certainly wasn't the only one.

Most people probably didn’t talk about it or admit it in my parents’ generation.

Disposable nappies can take away the feeling of wetness but DS wouldn’t wake up if he wet the bed and wasn’t wearing a nappy.

My DD was on Desmopressin until she was 13 .. she also took medication to keep her dry in the day for a while. Some kids get the hormone, some don’t. Some kids have physiology issues .. DD had a very short tube from kidney to bladder, and could easily get infections due to some backward flow.

18 now and all is fine. All the “reducing drinks in the evening” and “lift them at night” won’t cause a hormone to kick in.

i was a bedwetter until I was 12, parents never looked for help, I felt so ashamed … I made sure my daugher never felt that way.

Going against the grain somewhat but I removed nappies from my 3 year old who was consistently having wet nappies in the morning and he quickly got night trained as he was waking up and then weeing. My youngest was getting after I did this at 4 but went back into nappies (although he purposely wet the bed because he wanted to come into ours for a cuddle- nice play Mr!). He's again out of nappies at 4.5 but is mainly dry. He does occasionally wet but I see more potential this time and I have a washable wet layer (like a puppy pad) on the bed so I don't need to strip the bed - only that pad and a 'sacrificial" blanket. It's less stressful for us both as for him it's only wet pants/pjs as the pad absorbs the wee and for me, less washing as it's not the whole bed.

It's hard, but you need to figure out if it's a lack of biological control, lack of wanting to get up for a wee or done on purpose (I've had all three!). I do suggest the incontinence pads though as it's a winner for everyone.

You can't teach or train night time dryness.

The child has to be producing a hormone that wakes them up when they need a wee.

I'm surprised your GP said come back at age 5. Most aren't bothered til age 7/8

My DS was toiket trained at 2.5 but not dry at night until nearly 6.

Whilst my DD was trained at 2.5 and dry at night 2 weeks later.

One was producing the hormone and one wasn't.

I have to disagree with all the people who say "You can't train it" - this really depends on whether you are talking about "regular nighttime continence/incontinence" vs "actual enuresis" (which is a form of parasomnia).

Enuresis is a thing which is known in all societies, and it does seem to be linked to sleeping patterns and drowsiness in general.

With regular continence/incontinence issues, though... yes, it is basically trainable, in that kids who don't have enuresis usually do learn after a few nights of wet sheets. The nappies and pullups essentially delay the learning process by ensuring the child never has any uncomfortable feelings from urinating; there is a reason why "average" kids (without enuresis) seem to be achieving nighttime dryness later than they were a generation ago.

You can't force it. Reducing and cutting liquids will only cause more bladder issues.

It's not unusual, people just don't talk about it.

20 years ago I used to work at a residential outdoor activity centre so 300+ children a week, 6 years + and there would always be several in night time nappies so much so we kept a stock of different sizes in our first aid cupboard should any guest forget theirs or need more.

Agreed @Singleandproud. I'm a cub leader (so ages 8+) and there is usually a couple in pull ups on camp each year.

I dont think you can force it no, have 3 DDs all toilet trained before 2 and the 2 eldest naturally because dry through the night only a few months after being toilet trained.

3rd was the opposite, trained easy like the older 2 during the day but only became dry during the night at 4.5 and quite literally it was like a switch flipped and she started getting up through the night, we have few small accidents but 95% shes fine.

Only thing i did do was making her more aware, so i would say ok lets go for a pee before bed, then i would say, even though your pull up is on if you need a pee its ok to get up. i dont know if that made a difference but it felt like it did.

My eldest child is 6.5 and still in soaking wet pull up nappies every night. This is despite multiple attempts at going without, restricted fluids before bed, wee before bed and so on. She's starting to get a little embarrassed and upset about it sometimes now which is really sad. I spoke to the GP about a year ago and they said the only things they could suggest was a bed wetting alarm and/or periodically try for a week at a time without the nappies. They said they wouldn't be looking at medication to help until at least age 7 but usually more like 9. I've broached the alarms with my child multiple times and they're adamant they don't want to try them.

Like you my family are very outspoken about it as if it's some failing on our part which is ridiculous. I also know this is not true as our second child went reliably dry at night themself whilst still wearing pull up nappies at 2 yrs 10 months, a couple of weeks after daytime training.

My older two were both 6 before they were out of night nappies. One of them had the standard experience of nappies gradually being drier, so we tried going without and he was fine. My daughter had v full nappies at 4 but wanted to try going without and slept right through wetting the bed. So we went back to nappies and by 6 they were still v full every morning but she wanted to try again and that time she was dry and never wet the bed. So it’s worth trying every now and again even if nappies are still full. With both of them we took them for an 11pm wee for a week or two but it wasn’t necessary for any length of time.

This is our experience too. Yes, you can’t do anything about the hormone and my almost 9yr old is like this, clearly doesn’t make the hormone yet and can still have accidents if we aren’t managing fluid intake, what she drinks, how tired she is etc. The bed wetting alarm can’t do anything about the hormone, but does help the body learn to wake with a full bladder. I don’t get the fervour on MN for ‘nothing you can do’ - I think it’s logical that if we just leave them emptying into nappies for years then that’s what their body expects to do, that physical habit can be worked on, in absence of the hormone doing the work for them.

OP, I’d say 4.5 is too young for the alarm though. I’m preparing to do it soon with DC2 who is 6 and not sure if she is quite ready, they need to be very motivated themselves to take on the challenge.

Re MIL, just tell her the kid is dry now and don’t discuss with her.

A Irish instagrammers runs courses on exactly this topic - recommended. Deirdre Holland Hannon.