To have shouted at a stranger at the pool?

[Fullmooncomfort]

I’m still mulling this over so needed some opinions from you wise owls. The fact I’m still thinking about it makes me think I probably did the wrong thing 😖

scenario: busy pool today with Dd8 and her friend, we had just into a family cubicle to change after a nice swim. Changing rooms were busy and in high demand which is normal for weekend family swim time. We’d been in there for a couple of mins (so just at the stage I’m half dressed with dripping wet hair and the girls are wrapped up in towels slowly starting to dry off). The door to the cubicle gets banged on really loudly so I ignored it assuming someone had the wrong cubicle. However when it happened again really loudly I said “it’s occupied, won’t be too long” and the person on the other side started shouting about a jacket and rattling the door. The knocking and rattling of
the door continued and got louder and this girls started to get upset so I opened it a crack to say I think you’ve got the wrong cubicle, and a very red faced angry woman started shouting at me saying I’d taken her cubicle and stolen her daughter’s jacket 🤷‍♀️I had to speak loudly as she was literally just ranting and I said I think you have the wrong cubicle, it’s me and 2 girls and we are changing so please step away and you are welcome to come in when we are done but there’s nothing it in apart from our stuff.
She then put her hand on the door and continued to shout about a jacket, saying she needed to come in and check as I had clearly moved her clothes out of it and stolen the cubicle and jacket. I finally lost my temper and shouted back (I know that was wrong but it was awful, the girls were upset and she had her hand on the door so I couldn’t shut and lock it) and she started really yelling at me. I didn’t know what to do so asked loudly if security was around (lots of wide eyed parents standing who did nothing but not a lifeguard in sight as they were poolside and no security as they of course would normally have no reason to patrol a kids changing area)
She then screamed that I was racist and she was calling security on me for theft 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️and walked off, so I went back in to reassure the girls, having locked the door.
Next thing I know a lifeguard of about 17 who looked confused knocked on the door and said a lady had come to complain that her daughter’s expensive jacket had been stolen and I had been racist towards her. I felt really upset (I think just shock) and managed to wobble out the above story and that I was finishing getting the girls ready and we would come out and she could check it for this jacket (that clearly wasn’t in there). Then a security guard arrived so it was chaotic at this point, it all got repeated and she said she would try and find the women. She came back after a few minutes to say she’d spoken to her and told her she should have been polite and waited for us to exit before going in to check if the coat was in there, but that she had denied raising her voice and said that I had been deliberately goading and obstructive and racist. I got quite upset and said I certainly wasn’t racist or goading and while I did stop her entering the cubicle it was only because the girls were naked and we had just started getting changed. She sort of shrugged and nodded and walked off and I gathered up my things and we left. I feel awful for having lost my temper and shouted at her and for security, which scared the girls more, but I simply lost my rag after repeated attempts to ask her to wait while
we finished changing, and then she was so aggressive. I’ve had to explain to the girls what racist means and how It was nothing to do with race, but I’m mortified my DD and her friend saw me raise my voice and shout at her to move away from the civil cubicle. WWYHD in that situation? My gut tells me I handled it badly but it was all so sudden and intense and I think my fear turned into anger ☹️

It’s not horrendous 😂 you go into the cubicles to change, no one’s wapping their bits out in the communal space. The swimming pool isn’t ’segregated’ either you know

You did absolutely nothing wrong, OP. Nothing.

And the other woman knows fine well she behaved badly, else she wouldn't have lied about her own behaviour in it or used race as a weapon. Which she did.

I'm sorry other grown ups in the area didn't stand up for you, too.

Oh behave.
If the friend was on her own in the cubicle and someone hammering and banging on the door demanding to be let in, no doubt you'd be the first on here with "well why was the girl on her own in a cubicle, you should have been with her".

Perhaps they didn't agree with/were shocked by how she responded?

Very strange that you have been shouted at several times by white women. People don't tend to go around shouting at people for no reason. What was the question you asked in a mild way? By the way as a white person I'd like to say I don't perceive anyone of anything, it's their personality that shows me if they are an arse or not.

You could try engaging with the actual, measured responses you've had to your stance on this rather than constructing strawmen of the opposite point of view (including the poster who has themselves experienced considerable racism but uses the term).

There are simply people who disagree with you that "the race card" shorthand is more damaging than saying the longer-winded, "false accusations of racism apropos nothing in a cynical attempt to get out of being held to the same standards as anyone else". And there are people who disagree that the phrase itself implies a particular incidence rate. And there are people who would probably disagree with you about what that incident rate is based on their own experiences.

And yes, that's all allowed!

They're not Black they're Asian. And as someone of that race this isn't about you is it, because we're not seen as aggressive.

@Whippetlovely I worked in customer service and schools for a long time. I got shouted at plenty. Yes, predominantly by white women as that was the predominant group in either setting.

Even got told to fuck off back to Poland. I'm not Polish.

What's your point?

Even more usual are the posts saying how prudish and uptight Brits are, compared to all those free-stripping continentals….

I always want to tell such posters to fuck off, but being ‘uptight’ about rudeness, I have always desisted. (So far!)

That is interesting isn't it? Busy changing room with lots of adults and children who will have all heard every word and action of this exchange due to the nature of changing village layouts. Odd to lie about racism isn't it, when there are a ton of witnesses? Even if bystanders didn't want to get involved in the middle of a confrontation, no one said afterwards to OP that there was no racism, and they were on her side?

I'm with the the poster who suggested that OP should honestly reflect on her behaviour. I too, am wondering about unconscious bias and finding it telling that her 8 year old has apparently never heard about racism before.

You did absolutely nothing wrong. Try not to give it another thought 💐

She sounds unhinged, and should be a shamed of herself and for using the race card. Disgusting woman.

And I would suspect that the friends mother was aware they would have to change together in cubicle after swimming. Making a mountain out of nothing.

If it's OK to do so I will dm you as my anecdotes are too outing. But I do want to answer your question.

Perhaps its your own unconscious bias that's leading to you faulty conclusions about this.

Highly unlikely. I think most people hope it doesn't happen to them these days and keep their heads down. Even when someone is clearly being rude and out of line, like the woman pounding on someone's door accusing them of theft of a changing room! FFS

I'd have said something, personally, because I, like most others, used to HATE It when families left their things dumped in one of the very few family changing rooms while they pranced off to the pool. That's what the lockers are for, so other families can use the rooms, too, when they're changing. THey're not 'reserved' by leaving your shit in their.

The woman was out of line for behaving as she did. She knows it because then she lied about her own behaviour. Sounds like she left her family's stuff in their trying to reserve the room unfairly for an unreasonable amount of time, sounds like someone else moved it, and then OP and her charges got caught in the middle when they were just trying to get changed and get out of there.

I feel awful for having lost my temper and shouted at her and for security, which scared the girls more, but I simply lost my rag after repeated attempts to ask her to wait while
we finished changing, and then she was so aggressive. I’ve had to explain to the girls what racist means and how It was nothing to do with race, but I’m mortified my DD and her friend saw me raise my voice and shout at her to move away from the civil cubicle.

Or maybe the girls saw you raise your voice and verbally push back to protect their privacy from somebody demanding access to their space.

Sorry to point this out to you, but the perception of aggression is about perceived threat. I would say that Asians (specifically "Muslims") are generally seen by racists as more of a perceived threat than black people these days - if we're going there (which I wish you hadn't).

Not quite sure what your point is.

Lol so nothing to do with your being black then!!

haha!

We need a laugh on this thread. Thank you both.

I can't believe I've been drawn into this so early in the morning. I'm wasting time. I have things to do!! If I post anymore please tell me to get back to work!! You can even use capitals to do so. On this occasion I will not be offended at being shouted at!!

And I would say, as someone of that race you're wrong. Particularly as the OP described her as red faced. And this is the problem with people's own unresolved trauma informing their interpretation of these situations, it gives them their own bias towards events which is not accepted.

The only conclusion I came too was that OP should reflect on her behaviour.
I think that's a useful thing to do when faced with a situation where you are not sure if you've done the right thing - literally the whole point of OP's post.

Can you please explain where the unconscious bias is there?

@Whippetlovely you tried to make it sound like PP being shouted at is a "her problem". It's not that much of an uncommon occurrence (sadly) and even sadder , racism (and xenophobia in my case) increase these occurrences exponentially.

I don't think it's useful to tell someone who's the victim of an unpleasant situation to go and reflect on their own actions. You wouldn't even think of it if racism wasn't brought up. And that makes you biased in my book.

This is literally a whole thread reflecting on OP's actions. Which OP asked for.

Yeah so what the heck has unconscious bias got to do with the OP's actions then.