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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that work friends will screw you over if they need to and avoid work friendships from now on?

104 replies

Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 09:11

I worked at a company for 20+ years.

A few years ago, I had a miscarriage and was treated really badly by my manager afterwards. It all got very messy, with the union involved, and ended up in a tribunal where I won the main parts. However, the manager carried on victimising me, but more subtly. It was the friendship of people I'd been friends with for years that kept me there (plus the hope that manager would leave).

A few years later, I had a baby. Treated badly during pregnancy and returned to a demotion and worse conditions. Not allowed breaks for expressing milk. Wanted mediation. It was refused and manager or company said they'd rather go back to court.

Ended up leaving after submitting a grievance which was ignored and not even responded to.

We are now going back to tribunal. Not what I wanted, but my new job pays less than what I would have earned in my non-demoted role, and it is the principle too. I was effectively pushed out of my job and my pregnancy and maternity leave were affected by how I was treated too.

The manager is also spreading false rumours about me leaving (pretending I was sacked rather than resigned, making up false allegations).

Manager is trying to get (ex)friends to be witnesses against me. These are people who know how ill manager has made me and have been vocally and enthusiastically on my side... before I left.

I totally understand that they need their jobs and need to stay on manager's good side, but not to the extent that they are willing to speak against me and for manager. There's nothing that they know or can say that will affect my case badly if they tell the truth, but emails have already been sent via solicitors that show them lying to the manager about whether they have been in contact with me, what I have said to them and what their opinions are on the situation.

The problem for them is that (now they are "in" this by having been willing to write these emails and lie and probably be witnesses) they have now become relevant to the case and my solicitor has made me disclose messages from them and between us that prove they are lying. They will also really anger the manager as they show my ex-friends being very negative about the manager and having lied to manager.

I have no choice about this, but still feel terrible about it as the messages will really turn manager against them. My partner says they deserve it for being such turncoats (he knows them well because a couple of them have really been very close friends and spent a lot of time here and with my children), but I feel bad that the manager may now have them on the list for being next.

Unless they prove their loyalty by being willing to lie in court, I guess.

What I can't get my head round is how people who have been my friends for almost two decades can be such hypocrites. I know they're scared, but how can they justify doing this rather than saying no? Or even leaving if they are that scared for their jobs?

There are a number of people who have left who are enthusiastic witnesses FOR me and they are just as surprised as me about what is happening and probably more disgusted.

They think the lying people deserve to be exposed as liars and that I shouldn't care about having to disclose these private messages. But I do care, because I cared about these people. I know that probably makes me naive and stupid, but the history was positive and I can't just write it off and forget about it.

How can I ever trust anyone again? These were not just short-term work people. We were in each others' lives for years. We socialised together and looked after eqch others' kids. One of them was the person I called when I started miscarrying. Was I stupid to trust them? I think so. So AIBU to never have friendships/ socialise at work again?

OP posts:
Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 18:10

I have definitely learned a lesson

I think that, when I started at the workplace, I had moved to a new city and knew very few people. So work was my social life and those friendships developed and deepened.

When we were managed by a good leader, it was a great place to work.

I won't trust again like I did as someone in my early 20s

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Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 18:12

CagneyNYPD1 · 27/10/2024 14:32

I worked with a woman for many years. Supported her through her divorce and with lots of issues with her dc. She came to my wedding.

Then out of the blue she lodge a grievance against me. Our colleagues got wind of it and many of them supported her.

All of her allegations were untrue and I had proof for meeting notes, diary dates when I wasn't in work (on the days she alleged I was bullying her).

But I had to prove my innocence. It nearly broke me.

I eventually left my job a couple of years after she left. I just couldn't trust anyone and was constantly watching every word that came out of my mouth. I stopped speaking in meetings and only communicated with colleagues in writing so that I have a paper trail.

It pushed me to a nervous breakdown. 10 years on and I am fully recovered and barely ever think about it. But I will never allow myself be vulnerable like that again.

You are not alone OP.

I am so sorry that happened to you, @CagneyNYPD1

I know it will have changed you 😪

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Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 18:30

Spirallingdownwards · 27/10/2024 14:42

by those hearing the tribunal.

If the evidence is witness evidence then there are credibility issues. If the witnesses are lying and the messages show this then their credibility is shot and their evidence is treated as unreliable at best and disregarded entirely at worst (or vice versa from OP's point of view).

Good luck with your case @Myotherhouseisatent The word maternity leave returner in any claim should be enough to strike fear into the other side and I am sure that they will offer a door of court settlement!

Edited

@Spirallingdownwards , they seem quite proud of the maternity discrimination, weirdly

Apparently it was disgraceful to make assumptions about being able to express milk and work

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Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 19:22

Hmmmmnotconvinced · 27/10/2024 15:00

I feel for you OP.

I worked as a nanny for years before training to be a teacher and was frankly shocked at the bitchiness (from men and women) discovered in staff rooms when I began.

I’ve always kept my work and personal life separate and never accept friend requests from colleagues until I leave a place. It’s so much simpler keeping work and life separate.

That was until I started a job a few years ago where everyone seems to be hyper- social and it made me seem really up myself for being so boundaried in comparison.

So the moment I’m treading a fine balance between being sociable and attending the odd coffee/ shopping trip with a select 2 colleagues out of a large team and keeping things pretty superficial with the others.

It is a nest of vipers though, and I feel for younger, more naive colleagues who end up with everyone taking against them behind their backs for no reason and thinking they’re in these solid amazing friendships.

There always seems to be one ring leader in the workplace who everyone seems to fear and comply with, regardless of their rank.

I’m neurodivergent and can thank my pattern spotting skills and BS detector for my ability to stay safe from such people but it does sound as though your ex manager has got them firmly in her grip. Flying monkeys.

Well done by the way for getting out. It sounds so toxic and soul destroying.

Your so-called work friends deserve to be thrown under the bus as that’s what they’ve been quite happy to do to you.

Having extricated my self from several toxic workplaces over the years, I would thoroughly recommend leaving the very second that you get that powerless sick feeling before going in in the morning. It saves a lot of heartache in the long run.

Another top tip is to NEVER ever gossip. Only say nice things about people behind their backs.

Thank you, @Hmmmmnotconvinced

I think I have been too trusting a lot of the time. Now I will be the opposite!

I am glad I got out, and my new job is better in many ways, but I resent having been pushed

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MerryGrimaceShake · 27/10/2024 20:02

Mixing friendships into your professional life seems to always blow up in some way eventually. I got stung bout 10 years ago by a shit manager who also shat on my friend from a great height (who I had known long before we worked together) because the friend gave me a reference after I left due to the managers shit management, destroying the friendship.

I made a point after that to never, ever form friendships at work or get a job where a friend works. That was until last year when I started a new job with a manager who seemed like one in a million. Always flexible and kind, buying lunches and after work drinks, super friendly and supportive and singing my praises for my work. Getting to know each other on a personal level, made a point of calling us friends.

Then, for god knows what reason, just before her maternity leave she started acting weird towards me, interrupting and taking over meetings I was leading on. She totally fucked me for my mid year performance review, threw me under the bus big time with the big bosses and some colleagues (it's a job where building relationships is crucial for success) and told everyone that she was having to completely redo all of my work and taking credit for my ideas.

I was absolutely gutted. When my new bosses came in she had gotten to them first and laid it on thick how terrible I was at my job and set a bunch of BS objectives, some she hadn't even spoken to me about. Thankfully as they were both totally new they took it with a pinch of salt and they gave me a month to show them she was full of shit, and they struck off the performance review objectives and wrote me up some new ones.

Never. Fucking. Again.

Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 20:54

@MerryGrimaceShake , that is awful!

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Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 21:05

@MerryGrimaceShake, did she come back after mat leave?

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BurntCoconut · 27/10/2024 22:18

@MerryGrimaceShake

Be very wary of people being over friendly too quickly. There want something from you or are pulling the wool over your eyes .

BurntCoconut · 27/10/2024 22:23

I had a vile bullying boss once with a group around her that fawned over her and licked her arse . When she resigned , not one of them reached out to her . When I asked one of the arse lickers if she had been in touch with the bully her response was " Oh no too much drama ! " This person had taken holidays and had nights out with the bully .

Myotherhouseisatent · 28/10/2024 00:02

BurntCoconut · 27/10/2024 22:23

I had a vile bullying boss once with a group around her that fawned over her and licked her arse . When she resigned , not one of them reached out to her . When I asked one of the arse lickers if she had been in touch with the bully her response was " Oh no too much drama ! " This person had taken holidays and had nights out with the bully .

Manager also has close group around them. They get regular promotions and pay rises 🙄

OP posts:
Myotherhouseisatent · 28/10/2024 08:29

While I am sorry that so many people have had similar experiences, I have really appreciated people sharing them and also the other opinions. Felt a shift in my thinking about this yesterday.

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Worriedmummmm · 29/10/2024 10:39

Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 13:59

@Worriedmummmm, would you do it again if you could go back?

I am sorry they did that to you.

Yes. Every time.

Myotherhouseisatent · 30/10/2024 07:25

@Worriedmummmm , so much respect for you for that

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MerryGrimaceShake · 30/10/2024 20:48

Myotherhouseisatent · 27/10/2024 21:05

@MerryGrimaceShake, did she come back after mat leave?

Shes not back until next year, but I am almost certainly going to jump ship if it looks like she will come back and manage me again (there is a change her role will have evolved into something else entirely and they will keep her cover on, putting her somewhere else. At least I am hoping!!). Thankfully it's a project which will have an end so even if I stick it out it will only be for about 3 months after her return. It just got so intense so quickly with her micro managing. It was like a switch flipped with her singing my praises one day and then suddenly about 2 months before she left she started raining shit down on me.

I am so sorry you are experiencing this issue too. Yours is clearly much more stressful than mine. I hope for the best outcome for you in this situation. It really is a learning curve when you realize that the workplace is dog eat dog, especially at the moment.

Myotherhouseisatent · 08/12/2024 21:14

Oh wow, merrygrimaceshake. I don't blame you at all.

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Myotherhouseisatent · 08/12/2024 21:15

Update on this: I feel much much less bad about this now I have seen how far these people are willing to go to say and do ANYTHING to remain in favour with someone who they know to be a lying bully. It is helping me feel less sad about the loss of their friendship, that's for sure.

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ZippyDoodle · 08/12/2024 21:32

This doesn't surprise me.

I keep colleagues at arms length. No one has your back when it comes down to it. I've learnt the hard way.

Myotherhouseisatent · 09/12/2024 06:55

It's just really bloody sad, all of it.

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Jumell · 09/12/2024 07:02

One of my very biggest regrets is not distancing myself more from toxic work faux friendships

it was full of bitchy women and people wanting gossip

BurntCoconut · 09/12/2024 09:43

Myotherhouseisatent · 08/12/2024 21:15

Update on this: I feel much much less bad about this now I have seen how far these people are willing to go to say and do ANYTHING to remain in favour with someone who they know to be a lying bully. It is helping me feel less sad about the loss of their friendship, that's for sure.

What happened OP?

NeedToChangeName · 09/12/2024 10:14

As I've got older, I have fewer expectations of friendship in the workplace. Mostly, these are colleagues who you rub along well with, but won't keep in touch with when you / they leave

BurntCoconut · 09/12/2024 13:56

NeedToChangeName · 09/12/2024 10:14

As I've got older, I have fewer expectations of friendship in the workplace. Mostly, these are colleagues who you rub along well with, but won't keep in touch with when you / they leave

Yes I found this too . It was the ones I thought I got on well with . Oddly the ones who I had nothing to do with or didn't gel with are the ones more likely to give me the time of day !

Myotherhouseisatent · 09/12/2024 23:16

I have learned from this.
I have learned not to trust anyone. It's a shit thing to learn at my age.

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Newstartplease24 · 10/12/2024 06:29

I’ve been shocked by things like this too - to me, and things I’ve seen happening to others. Not by people who wouldn’t put themselves out to help you - but those who actively fuck you up after being super friendly. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I think there is a type of person who is ok with doing this which is actually more “normal” than the type who just wouldn’t and it’s this (along with some other things) that has recently made me start to wonder if I’m neuro diverse. Although I’m guarded now, I’m still surprised at an emotional level

Myotherhouseisatent · 10/12/2024 19:47

@Newstartplease24, can relate to this!

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