When do you become middle class?

[ForMintUser]

I was reading the “rich get richer” thread which made me think about something I have been wondering about, interested in other people’s opinions.

My parents came from working class, council house backgrounds, neither set of grandparents ever had much money, never owned a house.

Both parents left school with no qualifications, didn’t go on to further or higher education.

My father worked as a salesman, eventually got promoted to management and ended up working in senior management for a UK wide company.

I would say they were working class from birth but would probably be middle class now, jobs in management, home owners etc.

I would say I was raised middle class, there wasn’t a huge amount of money when we were children but certainly didn’t grow up in poverty, myself and siblings all went to university, have professional jobs.

I will say I recognise there is a lot of luck and timing in this (particularly in relation to house prices and the fact that my mother was able to be a SAHM because a family could live on one income then). I’m not a big believer in the idea that hard work always equals success, it does for some but not for others.

My question is, if they were born working class and are now middle class (happy to be corrected on that if people don’t agree) surely there needs to have been a point where you would say they had become middle class? So at what point do you become middle class?

Honestly it really is. Reading this thread to me is crazy. Telling people they “can’t change class” etc. and all these apparent rules around it. Who cares ? it’s just bizarre. Where I live no one talks about classes or thinks about it or cares.

I only ever see class mentioned on MN. Absolutely no one in (my) real life ever talks about.

The saying “money can’t buy class” exists for a reason. Class has absolutely nothing to do with income or money. It’s staggering that so many don’t know that.

I don't think being middle class is about income. My parents were middle class and from middle class backgrounds. My father was an officer in the Navy. Grandparents were Army officers, Doctors, Solicitors etc. I think you need to have a profession to be middle class. I don't have a profession, I have a degree and quite a good job. We aren't struggling financially but don't have lots of holidays, expensive hobbies etc. I am working class.

There is no class.

It's a made up construct like caste

When your dad starting having staff beneath him and wore a suit, and could afford to buy his house? I'd say if people's tastes change, like going to restaurants and the theatre rather than the local working men's club or disco? It's really hard to say to be honest. Some people like your parents might still consider themselves still proudly working class because of their modest, council house background. So they're middle class when they want to be I guess!

from the outside maybe.

He does have a very good point. I think the “middle class” OP is hoping posters tell her she is are far more educated than to aggressively wade in by calling someone a prick. Perhaps if that’s what she aspires to she needs to dial down the temper

Quite. I don’t think anyone would refer to Wayne Rooney (for example) as anything but working class

Again, there is no class.

It's a completely made up thought construct.

These days it only really exists in England.

Every other countrt has advanced with the times

So they're middle class when they want to be I guess!

I flit between the two and I'm also WC (my roots) when I want to be. Sure it's called accommodation in language where we change our accent, vocab etc depending on the company. I suppose this extends beyond language and my interests can also change depending on whether I'm with my family or my upper MC in laws, for example.

It's interesting taking my sushi loving DC home and my mum giving them things like pie and mash.

As for your question OP, I think some are too fluid to define.

The class system in the UK is wild.

As an Irish person you are always placed as working class too

In Ireland almost 70% of people see themselves in what we call "middle Ireland"

Oh dear, I thought it was me just getting old. Not that I had started being middle class 😂 Although the listening in radio 4 I am blaming on DH. I find the people on here obsessing over what class they are in hilarious. I have never heard anyone in real life worrying about this.

To be heducated with a few manner chucked in for good measure!

I really don’t understand this class system. I live in a small town in central Scotland and never hear of anyone talking about this .It must be an English thing. It’s talked a lot on mumsnet. It’s as if everyone wants to be middle class
Anyway I’ll join in since I’m here 😀. I’m definitely working class. I work in a warehouse, my
partner an electrician. We live in a large detached house, nice car. I like classical music. Hate reading. Enjoy history documentaries, I have bugger all savings. My kids are nice and polite. Grew up happily in a council house. In a nice area.

Oh I forgot my partner has a Barbour jacket lol

When you have all the trappings of a middle class lifestyle. Kids in private school, ski holidays, nice two weeks in the sun, a nice home in a leafy area... The people who can afford this now are our tradesmen like electricians, plumbers, builders. These are essentially living a very comfortable, middle class lifestyle, heavily investing in their kids who will grow up mc. I am hoping my son will do a trade.

To those saying a I have a temper - true. It’s a failing. One of many.

The car finance thing is interesting to me. Spoken about on mumsnet a lot. Does that hark back to when HP became an option? Was it seen as a working class thing and that hasn’t changed? Is it reverse snobbery? Taking the same pride in driving an old car as some people do in having a new one? Does the fact that I was planning to buy the old one at the end of its PCP matter? (I like getting new cars so I bought one).

If I tried to claim to be working class in my day today life people would find that laughable so I think maybe it is just a mumsnet thing.

Interesting discussion - thanks all!

I have all the signifiers of a middle class life - the Archers included. But I’m firmly working class.

The idea that class ‘doesn’t exist’ is a privileged viewpoint from those completely ignorant of class discrimination. I experience this on the daily.

You only have to look at some of the stats for elite organisations and universities to know it exists. I imagine it’s a lot worse in the wider workplace and public services.

Saying class doesn’t exist is totally wrong.

My understanding is that your parents cant change class, no matter how much Boden they wear or how much their Wren kitchen cost.

They can have a middle class lifestyle but will always be working class if they grew up in the circumstances you describe them growing up in.

I believe your social class is set by late childhood.

I googled and found this:

Values are deeply held beliefs about what is important, desirable, and worthwhile in life.

I'd say that sums up what I mean when I say 'values'.

It is notable that many UC or UMC work in low paid but interesting jobs such as for charities, auction houses, academia. They are able to afford to do this because they have a financial cushion of some kind.

Phone for the fish knives Norman

According to my husband, when you buy a china gravy boat rather than serving gravy in the plastic jug I use to make it. He took the piss so much that I now refuse to use the gravy boat 😁

I didn’t ask you for a definition of the word, how does it indicate class?